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(ducking!) I have two suggestions

MrCere
Sr. Staff


Feb 18 2007, 1:50am

Post #1 of 19 (531 views)
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(ducking!) I have two suggestions Can't Post

I ducked because A* is going to hit me with her staff that I didn't suggest stuff before this went live.

So, an idea, take it or leave it or debate it.

In the "off topic" forum, I would suggest adding one or two (my preference) sub forums. One is for off-topic television, and the other is for off-topic movies. I think it would be handy to have all the "Lost" threads, for example, gathered in one place smaller than just "off topic". I fear that 'off topic' will grow to be messy quickly.

Evil

If we live in trying times, we must be the ones who try. If the future is looking dark, we must be the ones who shine.

(This post was edited by MrCere on Feb 18 2007, 1:51am)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 18 2007, 2:35am

Post #2 of 19 (325 views)
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*sharpens stick* [In reply to] Can't Post

Weeellll, we don't want a proliferation of too many boards, or "Balkanization" as N.E. Brigand said in the recent conversation about this topic here on the old Feedback board. Laugh

We have weekly movie and Lost threads now. If the people who post them want to link back to the previous ones they could. But part of the charm of the old boards we tried to retain was that old posts *will* eventuall fall off the board and become dormant. It's nice to have a fresh conversation about them every week I think.

We can revisit the boards down the road once we settle in, but my own preference is, as Arwenelf said in that thread linked above, "Less is more."

That didn't hurt too much, did it? Evil


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

TORn Calendar


diedye
Grey Havens


Feb 18 2007, 5:01am

Post #3 of 19 (280 views)
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Waaaaaait a minute... [In reply to] Can't Post

You mean once the thread falls off the board, then we can't reply to it, just like on old TORn?

*grumble grumble*

Then what's the point of a new board?!

*hmph*

*slinks back to hug old TORn*



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 18 2007, 5:32am

Post #4 of 19 (268 views)
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Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe all threads remain active, but as new threads get posted the older ones will slip to other pages and they're not as likely to be seen. I don't think it's happened yet, but soon the forums will have multiple pages. The default was set up so that the newest thread remains at the top, not the newest post, so posting in an older thread won't bump it to the beginning of the forum.

Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.


NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows


Sherry
Rivendell


Feb 18 2007, 8:39am

Post #5 of 19 (268 views)
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Re: [diedye] Waaaaaait a minute... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You mean once the thread falls off the board, then we can't reply to it, just like on old TORn?


We should still be able to reply. Just the board has been set up so threads drop off, as others have said :)

Suggest the 'Watch thread' option when posting to a thread (find where your Watched Thread list is by clicking on 'Edit Profile') you want to keep an eye on, even after it drops off the first page, that way you don't have to go looking for it, and other people can do the same :)

Although I am sure, eventually, after a certain amount of time and dropping down the pages, a thread will become idle as people won't look that far back and are more likely to repost on the top of the first page. But it'll be handy as if you still have a thread being watched you can just give them a link to it.

''Pooh!'' he whispered.
''Yes, Piglet?''
''Nothing,'' said Piglet, taking Pooh's paw. ''I just wanted to be sure of you.''


New boards = new nick. User formerly known as Arwenelf


Draupne
Forum Admin / Moderator

Feb 18 2007, 8:43am

Post #6 of 19 (243 views)
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The point? [In reply to] Can't Post

Need there be a point to everything?

Except for messing with your head?

:-)



FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Feb 18 2007, 12:17pm

Post #7 of 19 (253 views)
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Re: [Altaira] *sharpens stick* [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But part of the charm of the old boards we tried to retain was that old posts *will* eventuall fall off the board and become dormant. It's nice to have a fresh conversation about them every week I think.


Can you clarify this for me. If a thread keeps getting posts, it will never drop off the board, correct?


Sherry
Rivendell


Feb 18 2007, 12:32pm

Post #8 of 19 (246 views)
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Re: [FingonOfPittsburgh] *sharpens stick* [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Can you clarify this for me. If a thread keeps getting posts, it will never drop off the board, correct?


Does this help?

2.3 Can I reply to posts that have fallen off of the board? Hallelujah, yes! Threads and posts stay active forever unless locked for some reason by a moderator; they simply move to page 2, 3, 4... etc. Eventually, threads will become dormant as they fall to older pages, so variations of a topic can be started anew. This helps preserve the “fresh, new conversation” aspect of the old boards. You can check on replies to old threads by re-sorting a board by “activity.” For more on how to do this (See 2.34 below).

**

Its not that they will 'drop off the board' in this set up. There is no more dropping off the board. Just dropping down the pages Wink

''Pooh!'' he whispered.
''Yes, Piglet?''
''Nothing,'' said Piglet, taking Pooh's paw. ''I just wanted to be sure of you.''

What I am listening to




New boards = new nick. Registered User formerly known as Arwenelf


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Feb 18 2007, 1:54pm

Post #9 of 19 (252 views)
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Re: [Sherry] *sharpens stick* [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes that's why I asked her for clarification on her statement. Above, she says

Quote
But part of the charm of the old boards we tried to retain was that old posts *will* eventuall fall off the board and become dormant.


... when it fact it has nothing to do with a posts age (as on the old board), but rather whether or not it continues to remain active (replied to).


Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Feb 18 2007, 1:56pm

Post #10 of 19 (226 views)
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Re: [FingonOfPittsburgh] *sharpens stick* [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me clarify again: I find myself viewing threads by Age (Activity), which is more in line with how most message boards sort threads. So as long as I keep doing that, posts will be sorted in the manner I'm used to. Cool

Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


FingonOfPittsburgh
Lorien


Feb 18 2007, 2:07pm

Post #11 of 19 (248 views)
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Re: [FingonOfPittsburgh] *sharpens stick* [In reply to] Can't Post

The more I think about this, the more I wish this board's default behavior was such that the thread with the newest POST was at the top of the forum. As someone else said, it almost defeats the purpose of a new board, since that how the old board worked.

But more importantly: let's say I'm over here clicking Age (Activity) and posting on a thread. Someone else has no clue about that sort order, so they have no idea this thread even exists. For them it's on page 12. So they start a new thread on the same topic and a group of others join in on that topic. However, here is our original thread on page 12 that has dealt with the subject at hand for, say, the past 8 months (on active boards like this one, one thread can stay active for years). These new people completely miss out on the subject. If I and the others want to participate with the new posters, we will have to regurgitate what we've already said on the original thread. We will ultimately have to post a link to the original discussion in the new thread and explain how to sort so that it appears at the top of their page 1. Their new thread will then be abandoned and rendered useless. Or, if that link is ignored, we then have two (or more) exclusive groups of people discussing the same topic on two (or more) threads, thus balkanizing this group of people who would otherwise benefit from discussing the same topic with each other. Mad

I don't get it.

Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament... There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death: by the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste (or foretaste) of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man's heart desires.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #43, to his son Michael


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 18 2007, 3:15pm

Post #12 of 19 (235 views)
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Here's my understanding [In reply to] Can't Post

The initial set-up was done so that the new boards were similar to the old boards, with the added benefit that old threads could still be active and we could post in them. But the situation you describe could easily occur, especially if the boards become active once some more Hobbit news is released.

I think we'll just have to see what happens - I don't remember if the default can be changed.

Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.


NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows


Revie
Rivendell


Feb 18 2007, 4:20pm

Post #13 of 19 (307 views)
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Thread Merge? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a good question, Fingon, and I'm wondering if these boards have a thread merging capability, or a thread bump function. Thread merging would be great when you have a new thread started by accident. And if there was a way to bump the creation date of a thread to keep it on the top page if it was still active, that would be excellent.

I've been looking at the Gossamer support forums, but haven't seen these features listed anywhere.

FKA: Arevanye

Dymer's Dream: A Graphics Journal



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 18 2007, 4:42pm

Post #14 of 19 (229 views)
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Smoothes Fingon's feathers [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear you, but the same things you're referring to also happen if a thread gets too long. Newbies (or oldbies for that matter) won't read through an entire thread once it gets to be pages and pages long. Plus, if no one's posted to it for a while, they're not going to see it anyway.

If something comes up that's exactly the same as something that's already been disucussed, it's VERY easy on these boards to search on that topic and post a link for the person. New people see the thread that may have missed it before, and a fresh conversation starts.

You can't please all of the people all of the time. The majority of feedback we got both on and off the old boards was that one of the primary things people loved about the old boards was the 'fresh conversation' aspect. One of the things they hated the most was that you couldn't search on, or ever get back to older converstations. These boards do both!

Besides, you can always *glug* them, then just give them the link to the Search function. Wink


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

TORn Calendar


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Feb 18 2007, 6:35pm

Post #15 of 19 (234 views)
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Regurgitation is good. [In reply to] Can't Post

Think of it as a chance to discuss an old idea with new people rather than merely telling them to read what you've already said.

The counter-argument to your not unreasonable concern is the one I made on the old Feedback board: TORN was better off having threads expire. The sheer weight of history is stifling to conversation, and on boards like those at TheOneRing.com there is an expectation that new posters will seek out and read entire past threads before responding -- they are even reprimanded for not doing so. And that scares people away. Even if it's not a rule here, the expectation would be oppressive. Even on old-TORN, when I used hatster's indext to dig out and repost some past Reading Room comments to cite in a new discussion, I could sense most people's eyes glazing over, no matter that how clever and beautiful the old post, no matter that it was by NZ Strider at the height of his Tolkienist powers.

I don't want a thread to stay active for years, as you suggest could happen. My disappointment here is the opposite of yours: I'm sorry that threads that have fallen from the first page can still get responses. But I'm glad they don't re-appear at the top of the list when they do. If as you suggested, we had threads listed by most recent activity, wouldn't "Scenes from the Hat", "Middle-earth Conspiracy Theories", Fiesta, the books thread, the movie thread and so on simply live at the top of the board forever, bloated monstrosities? Or worse, a series of book, movie, Fiesta, etc. threads? No thanks.


In Reply To
But more importantly: let's say I'm over here clicking Age (Activity) and posting on a thread. Someone else has no clue about that sort order, so they have no idea this thread even exists. For them it's on page 12. So they start a new thread on the same topic and a group of others join in on that topic. However, here is our original thread on page 12 that has dealt with the subject at hand for, say, the past 8 months (on active boards like this one, one thread can stay active for years). These new people completely miss out on the subject. If I and the others want to participate with the new posters, we will have to regurgitate what we've already said on the original thread. We will ultimately have to post a link to the original discussion in the new thread and explain how to sort so that it appears at the top of their page 1. Their new thread will then be abandoned and rendered useless. Or, if that link is ignored, we then have two (or more) exclusive groups of people discussing the same topic on two (or more) threads, thus balkanizing this group of people who would otherwise benefit from discussing the same topic with each other.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Feb. 12-18: Tim & Greg Hildebrandt.


Aerin
Grey Havens


Feb 18 2007, 9:00pm

Post #16 of 19 (204 views)
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Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post

The fact that old posts and threads go away, and discussions start over again is precisely what has been so GOOD about TORn. And the fact that old threads live forever and newbies are expected to read all 3,000 posts in a thread before daring to respond is exactly what I HATE about other boards, and is a large part of why I have not become a regular anywhere else.

Along the same lines, I think it's too bad there's an indicator of newbie status or posting activity (i.e., the progression from Registered User to Shire, etc.). That's something else that tends to stifle discussion on other boards--ordinary mortals hesitate to engage someone in discussion who has 6,000 posts.

Actually, I even think it's too bad we can even see how many people have read a post. I used to think this would be nice (as in when I would wonder, "Hasn't anyone even read my post?!?"). But now if find that I don't really care how many people have read MY posts (actually, more than I would have expected), but when I see that someone else has gone to a lot of effort and not many people have read the post, it makes me feel bad for them. At least with the old system, we could imagine that a post was read, even if it didn't attract many replies.


a.s.
Valinor


Feb 19 2007, 12:42am

Post #17 of 19 (199 views)
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well, yes. and no. Paging Altaira again. [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you and NEB about posts dropping off the board, it is so important to keeping the conversation going. I love that feature and hope it never changes.

But about the "views", I have a question (Altaira, sorry!): if one looks at the whole thread in "flat mode"---in other words, scrolls down through the long collated set of replies in one thread all at once---will that show up as "viewing" a particular post EXCEPT for the main header of the thread?

I bet only the main header is going to show a "view", and the replies won't show a view at all.

So think: people could very well be viewing your replies and it won't show up.

I'll tell the truth, I haven't really been looking at that number. Maybe I'm just not used to looking for it yet. Hmmm.

And the different "levels" are OK with me, because they don't show right on the ID screen (uh, what IS that thing called on the left where our avatars are?) how many posts it takes to get there. It just lets newbies know (after they've been around long enough to know the customs) who the old-timers and/or frequent posters are.

a.s. (gosh, I hope this isn't in faqs or Altaira is going to send me to the principal's office!!)

"an seileachan"

The Lost Mod Power: An Elegy (with apologies to Wordsworth)

What though the mod power which was once so bright
Be now FOREVER taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendor in the stats, of glory in the power,
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 19 2007, 12:49am

Post #18 of 19 (207 views)
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Lol! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hehe, no pricipals office for you this time a.s. Smile

Any time you click on any post in a thread, whether you're viewing it in flat or threaded mode, the views for the entire thread increase by one. That's why the root post always has the most views...etc. So you can't *really* tell how many times any one post has been viewed.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

TORn Calendar


a.s.
Valinor


Feb 19 2007, 12:55am

Post #19 of 19 (310 views)
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ok so if I understand correctly [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Any time you click on any post in a thread, whether you're viewing it in flat or threaded mode, the views for the entire thread increase by one. That's why the root post always has the most views...etc. So you can't *really* tell how many times any one post has been viewed.




That means none of us should place too much value in the "number of views" listed next to one of the responses to a thread header (the root post, in Torn terms)...the first post, in other words. Because many of us are using "flat mode" to view threads, particularly long threads, and therefore the lower the response post appears in a thread and the longer the thread, the more likelihood that the later posts are being viewed as part of a flat mode, and so won't get a "view" added to them.

Right?

So Aerin, don't put too much faith in the numbers, just ignore them!! I plan to.

(can't ignore the smilies, though...look at them! The little devils Evil are gazing at me with their big eyes Smile just BEGGING to be clicked on!)

a.s.

"an seileachan"

The Lost Mod Power: An Elegy (with apologies to Wordsworth)

What though the mod power which was once so bright
Be now FOREVER taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendor in the stats, of glory in the power,
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind.

 
 

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