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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
All *Spoilers* regarding Desolation Of Smaug and TABA from Hobbit commentary
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Arannir
Valinor


Oct 29 2013, 10:25am

Post #26 of 34 (304 views)
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All speculation [In reply to] Can't Post

:)



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Oct 29 2013, 5:17pm

Post #27 of 34 (249 views)
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Thank the lord [In reply to] Can't Post

"As the films go on they get darker. Very little comedy by the third."

Not only do i love the darker elements of Tolkien, but PJ's sense of humor in AUJ just isn't funny to me.

Also...

"As the filming went on PJ started using less prosthetic orcs and more CG orcs. And he is happy about it. He thinks the orcs coming in the next two films will be very scary and formidable when compared to those in the original trilogy."

Too bad. I thought the CG was a little out of control in AUJ. Everything ends up looking too fake. A little CG goes a long way, and it can end up being too much of a good thing. And i'm afraid that it all won't jibe when viewed alongside LotR.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Oct 29 2013, 6:06pm

Post #28 of 34 (251 views)
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Squeeeeeeeeeeee! and a few comments [In reply to] Can't Post

Little teaser bits of info like this get me super excited for DOS and TABA! Thanks for posting this because I don't usually listen to the commentary on movies and would have totally missed it!

Just a few comments:

I wonder what the gems shown to Thranduil have to do with anything?

I'm glad they'll explain why the dwarves needed a burglar because I always wondered about that. What did they want Bilbo to do anyway? Slowly steal the entire hoard of treasure out from under Smaug one piece at a time?

I don't care either way about prosthetics or CGI, just so long as they still look like orcs.

Why does it always have to be spiders?

I'm glad the films will get darker. AUJ was IMO a sweet homage to the childlike bedtime story quality that Tolkien intended the Hobbit to have and I enjoyed it, but it's time to start connecting the films to LotR in tone and style. I'm a little nervous about the BO5A though because it has the potential to be very intense and emotional. I have I feeling I'm going to need to bring an entire tissue box!

I definitely suspected the morgul blade was supposed to be the same one that stabbed Frodo, but I wonder how it's going to end up back with the "darker powers"?

Super excited for the Battle of Dol Guldur!

Ugh. Azog.

Where, oh where will we find another archer for Kili to be attracted to?

I wonder what Sauruman is going to be doing? Hmm...

Yay Galadriel! I hope she does something epic!

I wonder if we'll get to hear the thrush talk? For that matter, will we see the ravens and will they talk?

My favorite speech from the entire LOTR series: Sam:“It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was after so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those are the stories that stayed with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances at turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going because they were holding on to something.” Frodo: “What are we holding on to, Sam?” Sam: “That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for!”


chris10112
Bree

Oct 29 2013, 7:37pm

Post #29 of 34 (213 views)
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So then (Thrain) [In reply to] Can't Post

"How Gandalf gets the map and the key is changed from the book.

Something about the "who did you tell about your quest" line plays into the beginning of film 2. Also Personal and geopolitical reasoning for Azog seeking Thorin. (I think thats what they were getting at. Difficult to understand exactly what is in reference to what.)


Thrain's ring will come into play later on in the Desolation Of Smaug."

I am now convinced more than ever that DOS will open with Gandalf receiving the key in Moria from Thrain before he gets captured.

Azog will be chasing the company in order to retrieve the seventh ring, held by Thorin (info given up after his torture in Dol Guldur)

And that of course explains the Nazgul music during AUJ - Azog is facing down Thorin, in possession of a ring of power.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 29 2013, 7:39pm

Post #30 of 34 (191 views)
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I think that would mirror the books rather well, despite the expansions. I would hope for [In reply to] Can't Post

continuing humour in Beorn's house, the parting of Gandalf and the company at the eaves of Mirkwood (comedy mixed with real anxiety and foreboding there), and some going into Mirkwood. None in Dol Guldur, none with the spiders, very little with the Elves (some sardonic funny, and some Bilbo/Kili/Bofur funny, but mostly majesty, Fabulous and tension).

I expect humour in Laketown, of course. And Smaug has a great sense of humour... or at least a stunning wit, though none of it should be funny to Bilbo...

I think there are hilarious moments in An Unexpected, yet they are all either from Tolkien, in keeping with Tolkien, or else at least purely verbal. I find the Kili, Dwalin and He-Elf scene hilarious, for example, even if it might have made the more old fashioned Professor a tad uncomfortable lol. The only places where Peter completely lost me, as is often the case and was so in LOTR as well often enough, is when the humour turns pit. All antics and no lines. The troll mucus, the belching game, the dwarves sloshing beer down their beards... I LOVED the song of Bofur in Rivendell, and the dwarf chorus... but why do they have to throw food at the end? It goes too far. Peter achieves the goal of funny... then ruins it by forcing it to descend into pure, uncoth foolishness.

Agreed also about the excess CGI. Now, I think these wargs are exponentially better and more lupine monstrous than the TTT hyena. That said, I still find Gmork of THe Neverending Story scarier than most of them (with the possible exception of the pair that attack first during the meeting with Radagast, the one who charges Bilbo and the white warg... daisy), and more real seeming than any of them (which adds to making him more scary). I wouldn't go so far as to say that it won't jibe, but I did find the Nazgul more scary the old way.

In Reply To
"As the films go on they get darker. Very little comedy by the third."

Not only do i love the darker elements of Tolkien, but PJ's sense of humor in AUJ just isn't funny to me.

Also...

"As the filming went on PJ started using less prosthetic orcs and more CG orcs. And he is happy about it. He thinks the orcs coming in the next two films will be very scary and formidable when compared to those in the original trilogy."

Too bad. I thought the CG was a little out of control in AUJ. Everything ends up looking too fake. A little CG goes a long way, and it can end up being too much of a good thing. And i'm afraid that it all won't jibe when viewed alongside LotR.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 29 2013, 7:55pm

Post #31 of 34 (173 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

In Reply To
:)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 29 2013, 8:02pm

Post #32 of 34 (208 views)
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I think the gems are the reason we see an Elf army marching towards Erebor. [In reply to] Can't Post

You don't bring an entire army to spectate at the wrath of a dragon of whom you are terrified. I think we will find (or be left with the impression) that the insult to Thranduil was enough to make him come in force to renegotiate (though I don't know how well that sits with the Thranduil who would "tarry long ere I begin this war for gold,").

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Oct 29 2013, 10:22pm

Post #33 of 34 (159 views)
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It does seem like a bit of a contradiction, even in the book. [In reply to] Can't Post

I always wondered why, if Thranduil said he would "tarry long" before beginning a war over gold, did he bring an army to help him negotiate. That just screams "I'm willing to start a war over gold" if you ask me. Maybe he hoped the army would intimidate the dwarves into being more cooperative without having to come to blows.

My favorite speech from the entire LOTR series: Sam:“It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was after so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those are the stories that stayed with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances at turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going because they were holding on to something.” Frodo: “What are we holding on to, Sam?” Sam: “That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for!”


Jerry Cornelius
The Shire

Nov 1 2013, 6:04pm

Post #34 of 34 (109 views)
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Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem with CGI'ing the orcs is that there's no substance to them. It swerves the film more into the realm of being a videogame than an actual film. Think back to the scene in FotR where Sauruman's goblins were unearthing orcs. Now imagine how that would've looked if the orcs were CGI.

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