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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The placement of the Battle Of Dol Guldur revealed? *Hobbit EE Commentary Spoilers*

Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 5:49am

Post #1 of 23 (2514 views)
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The placement of the Battle Of Dol Guldur revealed? *Hobbit EE Commentary Spoilers* Can't Post

So I am listening to the Hobbit commentary by PJ and Philippa Boyens (I will probably post another thread with all the tidbits relating to the future movies after I have finished) and during the 'Good Morning" scene, I believe that they may have let slip the where the Battle Of Dol Guldur will take place in the films.

Here's what they say:

PJ: "...his staff is actually different and the reason why his staff is different - it's not the staff that he has in the Lord Of The Rings, that's actually something your going to have to look at the movies to find out. It's not till the third Hobbit movie-

Philippa: "...end of the second."

PJ: "..no, no, no. It's the beginning of the third that we get to see exactly why his staff changes between movies. Yep you wait and see Philippa"

Philippa: "Well I mean it begins at the end of the second"

PJ: "mmm yeah kind of... kind of"

Philippa: "Yup"

Going by these comments I would have to think that the Desolation Of Smaug will end with a climax (well the Gandalf storyline anyway) where the Battle Of Dol Guldur is just getting underway.

As many of us have suspected Gandalf will eventually take hold of Radagast's staff (Due to it looking remarkably like Gandalf's FOTR staff.) and it looks as though it won't happen until There And Back Again.

If I had to hazard a guess, i'd say that when the shot in the 2nd trailer of the Orcs marching forth (mostly likely towards the Lonely Mountain.) from what appears to be Dol Guldur, Gandalf will be incapacitated or held prisoner in some way inside the ruins.

Then "There And Back Again" will open with the White Council coming to Gandalf's aid. Somehow Radagast's staff will come into Gandalf's possession. And Gandalf will then desperately make for The Lonley Mountain to warn everybody. (This bit is going by the screen cap of Gandalf on a horse with Radagast's staff riding at a great speed.)

Thoughts?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2013, 6:16am

Post #2 of 23 (996 views)
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interesting... [In reply to] Can't Post

it seems like they are packing a heck of a lot of the book into the second film, i mean the battle of dol-guldur starts at the end of DOS...and finishes in the first act of TABA...what will the middle of TABA be about?


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Oct 28 2013, 6:19am)


Remus
Lorien

Oct 28 2013, 6:27am

Post #3 of 23 (1002 views)
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If that's the case [In reply to] Can't Post

Then i will be so disappointed that i will probably explode. Battle of Dol Guldur is my top 2 of this entire trilogy. With Battle of the Five Armies probably number 1.


This will be the biggest cliffhanger in movie/cinema history... It's like they would cut/end TTT with the Berserker Uruk-Hai suicide running into the wall and breach it... SNAP! THE END! or TO BE CONTINUED.


I hope it ends after the battle is done and maybe we get a hint about that Battle of the Five Armies instead....

But i really wanna see that, i wanna see that scene where we see Sauron walking the steps INSIDE of Bara-Dûr and taking his seat upon his dark throne and summoning the eye, looking into the camera and then BAM! THE END.


-My thoughts on the best ending scene/post credit scene on TABA.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 28 2013, 7:17am

Post #4 of 23 (976 views)
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Well, I've been predicting [In reply to] Can't Post

that DOS will climax with Smaug/Laketown, and we will see only the first part of the Dol Guldur battle, leaving that storyline unfinished with a cliffhanger and doubt as to Gandalf's condition/whereabouts. That will leave the rest of Dol Guldur/White Council for TABA, along with the Laketown aftermath, the Siege of Erebor, the Bof5A, and Bilbo's return home.

This would fit right in with that scenario.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Thranderz
Rohan


Oct 28 2013, 8:44am

Post #5 of 23 (831 views)
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How did you get the commentary? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I simply walked into Mordor.


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 8:46am

Post #6 of 23 (896 views)
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From a less than savory source *wink wink* [In reply to] Can't Post

But I also paid for it through iTunes and I didn't get the commentary so yeah...


Thranderz
Rohan


Oct 28 2013, 8:58am

Post #7 of 23 (837 views)
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I understand....... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've PM'd you Wink

I simply walked into Mordor.


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Oct 28 2013, 9:18am

Post #8 of 23 (796 views)
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I don't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm part of the "put it into TABA"-faction. My guess is:
The climax of DOS will be:

Main plot:
Smaug confronts the Dwarves and then leaves for Lake-town (perhaps when he smells that the Dwarves are wearing clothes from there). That will be the cliffhanger.

White Council subplot:
Gandalf confronts the Necromancer (but no duel), gets captured and Radagast informs the council. They decide to act quickly. Another cliffhanger.

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Alex Maglor
Bree


Oct 28 2013, 9:43am

Post #9 of 23 (794 views)
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Commentary Subtitles [In reply to] Can't Post

Has subtitles the audio commentary?


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Oct 28 2013, 12:53pm

Post #10 of 23 (677 views)
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Originally... [In reply to] Can't Post

I figured the White Council/Dol Guldur stuff would wrap up in film 2, being the secondary plot that it is. But there's just been so little set-up of it thus far, that I can't see it ending in DoS. So I'm now firmly of the belief that Smaug is going to kick the bucket in DoS, while Dol Guldur/White Council set-up material will comprise a good portion of DoS, and the "assault" by the Council won't happen until early in film 3. I think it's likely that Gandalf will find something in Dol Guldur pertaining to Sauron's plans, and once Dol Guldur is cleansed and Sauron flees, Gandalf will ride to Dale and warn the arguing Dwarves, Elves, and Men of the approaching Orc/Goblin/Warg armies. I think it's likely that the Orc/Goblin motivation for the Bo5A will be different from the book - instead of it being in retaliation for the death of the Great Goblin, it will be an attempt by Sauron to neutralize his enemies in the North. Just my prediction.


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 1:06pm

Post #11 of 23 (628 views)
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Yep I think your right [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially as Phillippa mentions a little later that Azog's pursuit of Thorin has a "geopolitical" reasoning behind it in addition to it being a personal vendetta.

And Alex, no there are no subtitles for the commentary.


(This post was edited by Joe20 on Oct 28 2013, 1:06pm)


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Oct 28 2013, 1:43pm

Post #12 of 23 (609 views)
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Theory about Azog's hunt... [In reply to] Can't Post

On one of the other Tolkien boards (can't remember which), I read some rather interesting speculation pertaining to Azog, Thorin, and Thrain's Ring. The idea was that Thorin is actually in possession of Thrain's Ring, and that Azog's hunt was ordered by Sauron so the last of the Seven could be retrieved. I know it's a far cry from the way the events unfolded in the books, and as many know I'm not at all a fan of Azog being alive, but that was still a pretty interesting theory.


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 28 2013, 2:10pm

Post #13 of 23 (572 views)
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I was sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

... Smaug would die during the first thirty minutes of TABA and the Dol Guldur skirmish the climax of DoS opposite the dwarves escaping Smaug. And still believe this would have been good, however, to see a great different version.

Now it looks like Smaug vs. Dwarves will be one part of the climax, Gandalf and Radagast realizing who is the Necro the other part.

Hm... Not sure about this. I hope it will make for a satisfying ending, especially if Dol Guldur, Smaug and Bot5A should be left for TABA.

I simply do not want Smaug's death and the politics that break out afterwards seperated from each other. Although I know many think differently about this... And as said before, I am very happy to get convinced and blown away by what the filmmakers came up with :)



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 28 2013, 2:24pm

Post #14 of 23 (569 views)
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Where does this screen cap appear trailer,vlog ? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So I am listening to the Hobbit commentary by PJ and Philippa Boyens (I will probably post another thread with all the tidbits relating to the future movies after I have finished) and during the 'Good Morning" scene, I believe that they may have let slip the where the Battle Of Dol Guldur will take place in the films.

Here's what they say:

PJ: "...his staff is actually different and the reason why his staff is different - it's not the staff that he has in the Lord Of The Rings, that's actually something your going to have to look at the movies to find out. It's not till the third Hobbit movie-

Philippa: "...end of the second."

PJ: "..no, no, no. It's the beginning of the third that we get to see exactly why his staff changes between movies. Yep you wait and see Philippa"

Philippa: "Well I mean it begins at the end of the second"

PJ: "mmm yeah kind of... kind of"

Philippa: "Yup"

Going by these comments I would have to think that the Desolation Of Smaug will end with a climax (well the Gandalf storyline anyway) where the Battle Of Dol Guldur is just getting underway.

As many of us have suspected Gandalf will eventually take hold of Radagast's staff (Due to it looking remarkably like Gandalf's FOTR staff.) and it looks as though it won't happen until There And Back Again.

If I had to hazard a guess, i'd say that when the shot in the 2nd trailer of the Orcs marching forth (mostly likely towards the Lonely Mountain.) from what appears to be Dol Guldur, Gandalf will be incapacitated or held prisoner in some way inside the ruins.

Then "There And Back Again" will open with the White Council coming to Gandalf's aid. Somehow Radagast's staff will come into Gandalf's possession. And Gandalf will then desperately make for The Lonley Mountain to warn everybody. (This bit is going by the screen cap of Gandalf on a horse with Radagast's staff riding at a great speed.)

Thoughts?


My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Oct 28 2013, 3:28pm

Post #15 of 23 (496 views)
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This [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm part of the "put it into TABA"-faction. My guess is:
The climax of DOS will be:

Main plot:
Smaug confronts the Dwarves and then leaves for Lake-town (perhaps when he smells that the Dwarves are wearing clothes from there). That will be the cliffhanger.

White Council subplot:
Gandalf confronts the Necromancer (but no duel), gets captured and Radagast informs the council. They decide to act quickly. Another cliffhanger.


To me this makes the most sense for where the climax will/should be. I don't think the DG subplot has been developed enough for it to be resolved by the end of film 2.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2013, 3:35pm

Post #16 of 23 (512 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

If they come up and have the battle of Dol Guldur unfinished as a cliffhanger for the next movie which is a whole year away, you will feel a strong disturbance in the force which will be my head exploding!

Your statement about it being like if they had ended TTT with the Berserker blowing up the wall of Helm's Deep is an excellent comparison and I agree entirely.

My favorite speech from the entire LOTR series: Sam:“It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was after so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those are the stories that stayed with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances at turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going because they were holding on to something.” Frodo: “What are we holding on to, Sam?” Sam: “That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for!”


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Oct 28 2013, 3:36pm

Post #17 of 23 (491 views)
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Exactly! It would be too rushed [In reply to] Can't Post

and has to be a major part of DOS. In AUJ it was what it was supposed to be: A subplot.

But if the Battle of Dol Guldur is already in DOS there has to be too much DG stuff in the second movie which would be a bit forced. After they split the movie into three PJ told us that he has now the opportunity to expand the DG subplot a little bit more. So why should he close this chapter in the second movie if a third is coming?

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2013, 3:44pm

Post #18 of 23 (528 views)
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So what will happen to Radagast? [In reply to] Can't Post

If Gandalf ends up with Radagast's staff then what happens to Radagast? I know a lot of people don't like him, but I do and I don't really want him to be killed. For that matter, what happens to Gandalf's staff that he needs to take Radagast's staff? and when does Galadriel get to come and kick magical butt? Will the battle be in DOS or TABA or both? (I hope it is concluded in DOS and doesn't become a cliffhanger thing.)

Gaaaa! So many questions that need answers!

My favorite speech from the entire LOTR series: Sam:“It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end, because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was after so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come and when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those are the stories that stayed with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances at turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going because they were holding on to something.” Frodo: “What are we holding on to, Sam?” Sam: “That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it’s worth fighting for!”


nhui06
Rivendell

Oct 28 2013, 4:27pm

Post #19 of 23 (458 views)
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Smaug will probably die at the end of DOS [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ needs some sort of conclusion for the end of DOS. It is not his style to have a cliffhanger ending; look at his past LOTR films; he concludes every movie (usually with a battle) properly, but allows for the journey to continue.

If the battle of Dol Guldur happens in DOS, we would have seen a lot more clips of it in the trailers; he knows big battles bring audience to the movies. So far we see 1 second of Orcs on the move. Compare that to TTT trailers, were we see lots of footage from Helms Deep. If this commentary is true, then it means that Gandalf is probably going to be in trouble at the end of DOS, and probably loses his staff in the process. But this is only the secondary plot.

The main plot will still be the confrontation with Smaug. Now, we have seen lots of footage with Smaug so far, so the audience expects a more Smaug focused storyline somewhere in the film. To me, PJ will conclude this particular storyline as a way to end DOS. It will be much more climatic if Smaug fights Laketown near the end and dies, rather than dying in the first 30 minutes or so of TABA. That is just my opinon.


Remus
Lorien

Oct 28 2013, 4:49pm

Post #20 of 23 (435 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for agreeing with me. And yes, this is some very disturbing news indeed...


And i thought the Smaug-open-his-eyes-ending was one of the biggest cliffhangers in a movie history.... Can't describe the feeling with the Dol Guldur Battle being the cliffhanger. I will probably hate the movie then. It will be too cheesy. We need some kind of "closed ends" and not "loose ends".

But i really wanna see that, i wanna see that scene where we see Sauron walking the steps INSIDE of Bara-Dûr and taking his seat upon his dark throne and summoning the eye, looking into the camera and then BAM! THE END.


-My thoughts on the best ending scene/post credit scene on TABA.


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 5:31pm

Post #21 of 23 (417 views)
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It was in a Vlog [In reply to] Can't Post

http://oi45.tinypic.com/282m8g1.jpg


Cillendor
Lorien

Oct 28 2013, 6:42pm

Post #22 of 23 (389 views)
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I don't know at this point [In reply to] Can't Post

but I hope that however the events unfold, we'll get to see Sting engraved and Balin set out on his quest to reclaim Moria in the end of TABA.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 29 2013, 1:58am

Post #23 of 23 (309 views)
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I sincerely hope they do NOT have any Nazgul breaking Gandalf's staff, [In reply to] Can't Post

, especially with this weaker state of The Nazgul. I think I might "hates them forever" if that happens. Sauron causing the break I can work with, but not any of the Nine. Also hoping they do not go the eggregious route of having Gandalf imprisoned inDol Guldur. Been there and done that with Isengard. We need to see old Mithrandir dominate at least some supernatural foe before being trumped by Sauron The Great! Another important fact is that Gandalf is the one who informs the council of the peril. He goes into Dol Guldur, escapes (if just so) on his own power (perhaps assisted in flight by Radagast, I don't see a real problem with that) and warns the others. I'd hate to see the crux of that altered.

Hypotosizing on what has been seen thus fa, I would say the staff break itself isn't in the initial Dol Guldur investigation, sense there are scenes in the 11th Vlog showing that staff in use in Dale. In battle pictures the staves are changed (they may be Five Armies shots), but in the quiet, contemplative images, it is the first staff.

From what we have stated here, it seems likely by Peter's account that the lead up to the great collision will open in Desolation, but be concluded in the first or a very early act of the last filmmm.

In Reply To
So I am listening to the Hobbit commentary by PJ and Philippa Boyens (I will probably post another thread with all the tidbits relating to the future movies after I have finished) and during the 'Good Morning" scene, I believe that they may have let slip the where the Battle Of Dol Guldur will take place in the films.

Here's what they say:

PJ: "...his staff is actually different and the reason why his staff is different - it's not the staff that he has in the Lord Of The Rings, that's actually something your going to have to look at the movies to find out. It's not till the third Hobbit movie-

Philippa: "...end of the second."

PJ: "..no, no, no. It's the beginning of the third that we get to see exactly why his staff changes between movies. Yep you wait and see Philippa"

Philippa: "Well I mean it begins at the end of the second"

PJ: "mmm yeah kind of... kind of"

Philippa: "Yup"

Going by these comments I would have to think that the Desolation Of Smaug will end with a climax (well the Gandalf storyline anyway) where the Battle Of Dol Guldur is just getting underway.

As many of us have suspected Gandalf will eventually take hold of Radagast's staff (Due to it looking remarkably like Gandalf's FOTR staff.) and it looks as though it won't happen until There And Back Again.

If I had to hazard a guess, i'd say that when the shot in the 2nd trailer of the Orcs marching forth (mostly likely towards the Lonely Mountain.) from what appears to be Dol Guldur, Gandalf will be incapacitated or held prisoner in some way inside the ruins.

Then "There And Back Again" will open with the White Council coming to Gandalf's aid. Somehow Radagast's staff will come into Gandalf's possession. And Gandalf will then desperately make for The Lonley Mountain to warn everybody. (This bit is going by the screen cap of Gandalf on a horse with Radagast's staff riding at a great speed.)

Thoughts?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Oct 29 2013, 2:00am)

 
 

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