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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
AUJ Extended Edition - New Scenes Discussion *HEAVY SPOILERS INSIDE*
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Faleel
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 7:33pm

Post #51 of 72 (419 views)
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Are [In reply to] Can't Post

The end credits (slightly) longer?

If so, is the music edited slightly differently?


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 7:39pm

Post #52 of 72 (426 views)
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excellent... [In reply to] Can't Post

30 seconds is quite substantial. Is the scene seamlessly included within the original prologue or is it separated with a cut back to old bilbo first? We ringers are nuts with the question we ask. I apologize in advance. I just want to know as much as possible so I can watch the movie in my mind in anticipation for November 5th.


DjU
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 7:47pm

Post #53 of 72 (422 views)
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End Credits (Name Girion actor included) [In reply to] Can't Post

The credits aren't any longer, well if they are is by mere seconds.

There are obviously a few extra cast, crew and song names in the scroll but I imagine this is achieved either by a few extra pauses here and there or speeding up the scroll by a tiny fraction.

Girion is credited and is played by.....Luke Evans


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 9:49pm

Post #54 of 72 (347 views)
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THIS is a good and fair take. Though, if not soundly refutted by the evidence of what follows in deed [In reply to] Can't Post

I fear it may be yet another one of those things that will be entirely lost on the casual or lay audience member.

I absolutely can see Saruman backhandedly implying, "well, the other Rings, including the ones you three have (especially yours, Gandalf, you usurper), don't amount to much, sans The One," lol. However, if you don't know its a crock of bull and understand his motivation for saying such, it creates a lot of confusion.

In Reply To
... but the issue here is that though bound to the fate of the One, the others are not useless as long as the One is lost.

However, I really think it is more meant to underline how Saruman tries to downplay the threat.

It would also not be out of character for him to underestimate the power of the Seven... And probably also the Three. Fully acknowledging their power would be pretty hard on him I guess, since he certainly cannot feel too happy about who wears them, even in his uncorrupted days. This doesn't mean he does not know their powers... It is more the acknowledging of a power denied to himself despite his high status.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 22 2013, 9:56pm

Post #55 of 72 (339 views)
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Never really sure about the confusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I guess the whole statement will be lost on a great part of the audience a) because they are not interested in those details or b) because they will never see the EE cut. I guess it is not too bad if the casual viewer maybe thinks "Sauron has no full power over one of the Seven as long as he does not have the One to bind it" - especially if this is later questioned within the movie itself, depending on whether the ring was used to toture Thrain in some way or drive him mad.

But as I always said... the whole topic of the rings is endangered to become a rather confusing topic within this trilogy... but probably one which we can only judge with at least more DoS knowledge.

It will greatly depend imho on the whole conversation they have on the rings... does anyone know how Gandalf introduces the topic?



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 22 2013, 9:59pm)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 9:58pm

Post #56 of 72 (328 views)
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True, though there are a surpisingly large number of people who never read the cannon, [In reply to] Can't Post

but pay very close attention to, and are devout fans of the films, EE and all, and set stock in what the "learn" from them. lol

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 22 2013, 10:00pm

Post #57 of 72 (326 views)
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And within the movieverse... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I don't think I would have the right to take that comfort away from them.

I doubt that someone who really gets into the movies does not at least know that there are major changes... even if they never touched the books. People like you and me remind them often enough, I guess :D

(Edited the former post btw)



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 22 2013, 10:01pm)


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 10:10pm

Post #58 of 72 (439 views)
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My thoughts after just finishing the EE [In reply to] Can't Post

I was watching, not just concentrating on noticing new scenes or music (of which there is none, except for the two songs from the books that are now included!), but to take in the pace of the whole film and see if it flowed any better. My opinion on that is...no, it definitely doesn't.

I would love a shorter, snappier cut, but one that DID include some of these EE moments, my favourites being all the Rivendell material. I am thinking everyone will lean towards those as being the most important omissions from the TE. The other being Thranduil being taunted with the jewels (when he and his army appear after Smaug's attack, does anyone else think he was on his way to assault Erebor and take those jewels for himself??). None of the other added scenes were essential, though were fun all the same.

As with all three LOTR films there is still a perfect cut of AUJ out there, waiting to be made, but this EE is definitely not it! I am disappointed and keep coming to the same conclusion - they should not have gone for the 3 film split!

Thranduil's moment in the Prologue, as well as the added part to the White Council scene, where Gandalf and Saruman talk about the Rings, fit better in a movie where we actually see the Elven King's halls and witness Gandalf finding Thrain in Dol Guldur, not to mention discovering the Necromancer's true identity, something I feel would have originally ended AUJ in good cliffhanger fashion.

The craziest moment in the EE? Down Down To Goblin Town!! :D Barry Humphries is just insanely brilliant as the Great Goblin. It's one of the best performances in the whole film. Sadly, the extra dialogue from the Dwarves, that follows that song, shouldn't even have made it to the EE. It makes the fatal error of making everyone in the scene come across as stupid. Even Thorin, who would have stepped forward sooner, without a doubt.

Anyway, I feel the extras are going to make up for a disappointing show for the EE. Especially no changes in music...but I won't go on about that as others have discussed it no end!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 11:01pm

Post #59 of 72 (296 views)
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And keep both eyes on them as often as we can spare them. lol. But not every film [In reply to] Can't Post

devoutee has the benefit of a lorelearned friend. lol

In Reply To
... I don't think I would have the right to take that comfort away from them.

I doubt that someone who really gets into the movies does not at least know that there are major changes... even if they never touched the books. People like you and me remind them often enough, I guess :D

(Edited the former post btw)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 22 2013, 11:10pm

Post #60 of 72 (292 views)
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That... [In reply to] Can't Post

... is what I meant with my first part of the last post. Who am I to force any lore down the throat of anyone if they feel comfortable with the interpretation of what they are seeing. The movies are imho faithful enough that the misinformation doesn't hurt anyone. People reading the books will learn the "truth", people just interested in the movieverse can live comfortable with that and casual viewers probably don't care that much.

And if someone asks me or the conversation comes up, I might share some of the things from my Tolkien insights.

But I stopped long ago to act as the Ratzinger of Tolkienism so all my friends know by the end of my life who Glorfindel was ;) :D



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 11:11pm

Post #61 of 72 (315 views)
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Without having seen as full an accounting as thee, I would still suggest that [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe the fireworks scene is more important than those of us in the know might think. As I was saying to one of my relations the other day, we know who the Old Took is and when his midsummer eve parties were held, but the lay viewer doesn't know Old Took from the gleaming glutius of Gildor, and neither Bilbo nor Gandalf explicates. That scene gives the viewer a refference point, it shows rather than tells of Gandalf's very long association with The Shire and with Bilbo personally, and I think that is great and probably would have behooved the film.

I have the notion that, when it is all said and done, it won't be a shorter version of An Unexpected that I will desire, but a version where scenes like that and the Rivendell scenes replace rabbit chases and moutain Transformers.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 11:12pm

Post #62 of 72 (292 views)
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You are the Agent of Truth, that is who! lmao [In reply to] Can't Post

sounding off like the horn of Orome! May the lies of Melkor flee before the light! lmao

In Reply To
... is what I meant with my first part of the last post. Who am I to force any lore down the throat of anyone if they feel comfortable with the interpretation of what they are seeing. The movies are imho faithful enough that the misinformation doesn't hurt anyone. People reading the books will learn the "truth", people just interested in the movieverse can live comfortable with that and casual viewers probably don't care that much.

And if someone asks me or the conversation comes up, I might share some of the things from my Tolkien insights.

But I stopped long ago to act as the Ratzinger of Tolkienism so all my friends know by the end of my life who Glorfindel was ;) :D


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Oct 22 2013, 11:13pm)


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 11:48pm

Post #63 of 72 (289 views)
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There are going to be some brilliant fan edits once all 3 movies are out there! [In reply to] Can't Post

Something I am looking forward to seeing (even if I have to edit it myself for my own personal enjoyment! :D) is an attempt to put together the original 2 movie cut Peter had planned before everything changed.


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 23 2013, 1:23am

Post #64 of 72 (286 views)
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It baffles to me to no end.... [In reply to] Can't Post

how detractors of the film largely criticize it for being split into three films because it kills the pacing. Then they typically pin chief examples of this on the thunder battle and rabbit chase. Do people not realize those two scenes combined add up to under 5 minutes of screen time. However, once you combine these scenes with the endless toll and bagend scenes, you have an argument. But people never target those scenes because they are both so faithful to the book. In reality, the film drags very little.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Oct 23 2013, 2:10am

Post #65 of 72 (262 views)
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Poor Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

It took me ALL day, but I finally found a site that had two video clips from the EE....and this was one (not too crazy about the GT sequence- I think it flowed a lot better in the TE....)

I really feel for the guy. How awkward and mortifying.... Unsure

Though he looks even more like my husband (with longer hair) in this scene! Blush It's creepy and hilarious at the same time, since I like the character on the character's merits, not looks per se....and my husband was awkward around girls too!

It appears as though he is somewhat enamored by the beauty of the elves (similarly to Gimli with Galadriel)-possibly because he's never seen them before?

Let's hope the Tauriel thing consists of nothing more than flirting in an attempt to get her to let them out of the cells or something.....since he is SO GOOD at it lol Tongue

I would LOVE to see her reaction to being one-sided flirted with by a dwarf of all things! (dearly hoping she is repulsed by his "advances" lol)

One of the things I am slightly worried about is said elf that he was flirting with (the elf MAID, not the accidental male) seemed to be locking eyes with him too...THAT I do not like at ALL. Very much against Tolkien....and a HUGE contrast to Lindir's disgust!

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 23 2013, 2:14am

Post #66 of 72 (305 views)
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Okay so I just watched all the new scenes. My thoughts... [In reply to] Can't Post

First things first, they have absolutely put in the newly designed Smaug into the prologue shots. Most obviously seen when you see his feet after trampling over Thorin. Really like it!

Speaking of the prologue, I enjoyed the Girion(?) stuff. Especially the bit with the arrow from the ballista thing bouncing off of Smaug (Why did they take that out?!).

The extra Thranduil stuff was good but I understand why it was taken out. Though I did really like old Bilbo musing to himself "and for what?"

The Old Took's party was great! I especially loved the cut from Thorin hitting the anvil to the firework. Transitioned wonderfully well. I would have liked it if they showed Gandalf though, but I understand that it's because his true introduction is the Good Morning scene and this one was focused on Bilbo.

My favourite new scene was Bilbo in the market. I just loved the look of it. It felt like... 'home' Tongue. For the first time in the entire movie it really looked and felt like Lord Of The Rings again. It wasn't over done with colour grading or on a set it looked exactly like something out of the original trilogy. And it was a very funny scene as well!

Extra Bag End bits were good though nothing to much there. Just little snippits.

Stand out sections of the Rivendell bits for me were Bilbo and Narsil/the painting, his conversation with Elrond and overhearing Gandalf and Elrond. I felt as though all would have been better off in the theatrical cut.

The scene about the Dwarf rings, while perhaps interesting for us, obviously is in its correct place in the EE. Not something for general audiences I feel.

And finally to Goblin Town. Enjoyed the song, though the EE suits it better than making the theatrical cut. Fantastic stuff from Barry Humphries.

So all in all, really enjoyed it. Shame there wasn't more. But the Extended Edition's best qualities lie in the documentaries for me so it isn't a big deal that there ain't that much new footage.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 23 2013, 5:35am

Post #67 of 72 (242 views)
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People never target those scenes (well, some critics did, though certainly not all) because they are GOOD scenes. I love a long [In reply to] Can't Post

film. My problem with An Unexpected was never that it was too long on the whole. I would have liked it longer. There were, however, scenes that last too long, and that felt like drag and or bloat. The rabbit chase didn't add anything. Also, those scenes combine to make about 7 minutes. Seven minutes that could have been taken up by some of these wonderful extended scenes.

In Reply To
how detractors of the film largely criticize it for being split into three films because it kills the pacing. Then they typically pin chief examples of this on the thunder battle and rabbit chase. Do people not realize those two scenes combined add up to under 5 minutes of screen time. However, once you combine these scenes with the endless toll and bagend scenes, you have an argument. But people never target those scenes because they are both so faithful to the book. In reality, the film drags very little.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 23 2013, 5:41am

Post #68 of 72 (240 views)
Shortcut
I thought the Kili scene was HILARIOUS. But I cannot see any Elf being repulsed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Amused (the Rivendell Elves in the book were amused with everything), and disinterested, but not repulsed. Repulsion is a very cruel and visceral reaction, and the Elves could find beauty in all things that were not ruined by evil, so while I wouldn't expect her to blush all over, it would be very disspointing if she treated him with revulsion.

In Reply To
It took me ALL day, but I finally found a site that had two video clips from the EE....and this was one (not too crazy about the GT sequence- I think it flowed a lot better in the TE....)

I really feel for the guy. How awkward and mortifying.... Unsure

Though he looks even more like my husband (with longer hair) in this scene! Blush It's creepy and hilarious at the same time, since I like the character on the character's merits, not looks per se....and my husband was awkward around girls too!

It appears as though he is somewhat enamored by the beauty of the elves (similarly to Gimli with Galadriel)-possibly because he's never seen them before?

Let's hope the Tauriel thing consists of nothing more than flirting in an attempt to get her to let them out of the cells or something.....since he is SO GOOD at it lol Tongue

I would LOVE to see her reaction to being one-sided flirted with by a dwarf of all things! (dearly hoping she is repulsed by his "advances" lol)

One of the things I am slightly worried about is said elf that he was flirting with (the elf MAID, not the accidental male) seemed to be locking eyes with him too...THAT I do not like at ALL. Very much against Tolkien....and a HUGE contrast to Lindir's disgust!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 23 2013, 12:49pm

Post #69 of 72 (219 views)
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The Thranduil scene... [In reply to] Can't Post

... is now also up on youknowwhere. Good stuff, especially Ian Holm's headshake at the end.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 23 2013, 12:50pm)


Dragonrnbw
Rivendell

Oct 23 2013, 1:39pm

Post #70 of 72 (186 views)
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Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

Scene looks cut even in the EE. When Thranduil turns and walks away the dwarf with the chest is back up by the throne......it looks as if there was more there and how I wish we could see it!!! Unsure

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!


TwirlingThorin
Bree

Oct 23 2013, 6:58pm

Post #71 of 72 (118 views)
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Cool - this should have been included in the theatrical version [In reply to] Can't Post

Richard Armitage mentioned the Nauglamir in the Empire's Tolkien trivia interview last year:

http://www.youtube.com/...youtube_gdata_player


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Oct 24 2013, 10:07pm

Post #72 of 72 (65 views)
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might I correct then [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps not repulsed (as though someone looks at an orc) but perhaps disconcerted/disgusted at the idea (not the being per se).

Similar in how the elves look on with chagrin at the antics of Bofur's song....

my apologies if I wasn't clear on that.... Smile

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.

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