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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
PJ in the NZH on Music, Smaug the Psychopath, and the Heavenly Creatures Mode
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Kelly of Water's Edge
Lorien

Oct 19 2013, 4:36pm

Post #26 of 43 (382 views)
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The part that caught my attention [In reply to] Can't Post

was the discussion of Chinese influence in Smaug's theme. My understanding is that Chinese (and Asian in general? I'm not an expert by any means) views of dragons are very different than those of Western cultures. Our views are informed by the creatures' association with the Devil (and therefore evil), while in Asian cultures they are benevolent distributors of wealth and prosperity, and just about the only thing Eastern and Western dragons have in common is power. In fact, in Chinese New Year festivities aren't the dragon dancers scaring away bad luck and evil spirits along with firecrackers? Perhaps someone who could actually speak to this with more authority than I could jump in here.


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 19 2013, 5:03pm

Post #27 of 43 (340 views)
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I do realize that... [In reply to] Can't Post

Being a musician myself.

However, I have not one single evidence so far that the outcome will be anything less than what PJ wants for his story and his movie.

That is why I reacted a bit alienated by some of the extreme comments, some of which have been rightfully edited by the mods.

I have nothing against a sound argument like yours though, despite the fact that I do not share any fear.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Oct 19 2013, 5:19pm

Post #28 of 43 (319 views)
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just to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
i think the point that some are bothered by is not that jackson will get / not get what he wants, but that we will not be getting shore's full vision for the musical portion of these collaborative efforts. those of us who love shore's portion of that contribution would like for him to contribute in the same capacity as he has for the lotr films. that would be the ideal scenario for some (including me).


.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Faleel
Rohan

Oct 19 2013, 5:34pm

Post #29 of 43 (311 views)
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WOuld also [In reply to] Can't Post

Just like to point out, that the Enya pieces, the source cues (Flaming Red Hair, The Passing of the Elves) and the Misty Mountains theme were not by shore.

Also, the London voices were conducted by Terry Edwards for LOTR.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Oct 19 2013, 5:39pm

Post #30 of 43 (318 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

 
hi faleel --

yes, i'm aware that those portions (enya, flaming red hair, the passing of the elves, and the misty mountains theme) -- all of which i love -- were not done by shore.

but perhaps some other people are not, so thank you for bringing up those facts on this thread, where they are most relevant.


.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

(This post was edited by Maciliel on Oct 19 2013, 5:39pm)


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 19 2013, 6:35pm

Post #31 of 43 (290 views)
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I would say Shore was over-worked for AUJ, so maybe no surprise he's stepped back [In reply to] Can't Post

He can't have been too happy having much of his original AUJ score needing to be changed at the last minute. None of that can have been easy to pull off in the time. So perhaps he has taken a step back from the actual production of his score this time to allow him room to breathe?

Just out of interest, does anyone know where the session for the AUJ EE was done, and whether Shore conducted that?


DjU
Lorien

Oct 19 2013, 6:42pm

Post #32 of 43 (285 views)
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EE Score [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty sure they didn't do a seperate recording session for the EE.

Not that it matters as a huge majority of the footage that's going back seems to have already been scored during the initial theatrical scoring sessions.

Big chunks of it can be heard on the soundtrack album.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 19 2013, 6:54pm

Post #33 of 43 (318 views)
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RE PJ's reaction to critism of the films [In reply to] Can't Post

As we discussed a while back, it seems he is largely unaware/uninterested in any criticism of AUJ:

"The criticism of the first film hasn't affected Jackson's approach to parts II and III.

'Ah, not really. I don't pay a hell of a lot of attention. Every time you do something people are going to like it, people are going to hate it. You tend to make the movies on the basis you are making them for the people who are going to like them and not worrying too much about people who don't like them.
'"

While the director shouldn't allow the audience to direct the films vicariously, there were IMO very valid criticisms of the first film which it seems PJ has just rejected totally as he's in a bubble of Jacksonanity (somewhat entering a Lucasian "if I want to paint my house green I'll paint it green" territory). So, prepare for long scenes of digital Azog and Digital Bolg fighting digital Radagast and Tauriel in digital Dol Guldur? TongueBlush

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Oct 19 2013, 6:57pm)


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 19 2013, 7:04pm

Post #34 of 43 (274 views)
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One should not overinterpret [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sure he has talked to a lot of people about the movie, some of them surely with criticism.

But there are things in there which he is (and should be) decided on, such as not using bigatures or liking the look of the CGI etc.

And as long as he reaches an essential part of the audience, creates a movie he himself likes and has an enjoyable moviemaking experience, I think he has not much reason to change direction. He has the luxury to do this with an established franchise.

Plus, few points of criticism could really be called universal, especially when I think about the reception of CGI, HFR and the pacing.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 19 2013, 7:19pm

Post #35 of 43 (249 views)
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TO s82..from one of the Earliest Vlogs [In reply to] Can't Post

Howard Conducted the LSO in
Abby Road studios in London,
probably Most of AUJ...
at Least a year and aHalf ago.

As the Creator of the Score,
Howard MOST CERTAINLY
gets to SIGN OFF
on the Finished Product...

It's probably in his contract.

Bomby thinks that PJ may have
visited when he was Shooting EW & IH
in the set of BagEnd in London,
as well as CL doing his Saruman.

VERY Likely HS has signed off
on what NZO & CP did for what
we could call the DoS SoundTrack Pick-ups.

Also HS already knows the members
of NZO, so it's NOT any surprize
to him what they can do
or can't do?

Remember, HS does NOT need
to travel Half way around the World
To be there in PERSON..
via the INTERNET!


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 19 2013, 7:19pm

Post #36 of 43 (253 views)
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The audience doesn't speak with one voice, though, does it... [In reply to] Can't Post

... you only have to look at the threads on here - and then multiply that by all the threads on all the other forums.

He can't let himself be put off by all that - for the want of a better word - noise. If he tried to please everyone he'd never do anything. I'm sure there are people whose opinion he trusts whom he does listen to, but for the most part he has to make the films his way. That's only sensible.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 19 2013, 7:28pm

Post #37 of 43 (261 views)
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Here is Link Now buried on page 2 about "ElvenKings Hall Music" [In reply to] Can't Post

This Chinese Instrument is What Howard might use for their
Asian Influence?!
AN ERHU?...soo cool, sooo Chinese
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhic2cE57iM

The Shriek, Shreik, ShreIIII-k of the "Psyhco Shower Scene"
WHOA...unforgettable..


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Oct 19 2013, 7:31pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 19 2013, 7:34pm

Post #38 of 43 (235 views)
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Not really "over" interpretation however... [In reply to] Can't Post

Concerning the quote in question, PJ simply dismisses criticism of the film altogether (even if he has spoken to those who've criticized the film, there's no indication he's accepted anything they've said).

Agreed that Jackson should direct them film as he deems fit (and it's largely not the audience's place to dictate what the director does and does not do); however - there were critiques of TH that, while they not be universal, were NEARLY so - issues of pacing and video games affects in particular.

What is the popular artist without an audience? PJ isn't simply producing films for himself, he's doing so a wide audience and a pre-established fan base. It's a symbiotic and the process of popular art/entertainment can't function with one and not the other.

No, PJ should not adhere to the "noise" of thousands of desperate voices - but there were valid concerns about AUJ, and to simply say "I'm only concerned with those who like my films" seems to be overly-wise in this instance.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Silmaril
Lorien


Oct 19 2013, 7:42pm

Post #39 of 43 (261 views)
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Doug Adams on twitter [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear people of twitter: you worry too much. Smaug is pure, undiluted†#HowardShore. Roadmap was slightly different. Destination is the same.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 19 2013, 7:42pm

Post #40 of 43 (226 views)
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An Interestin' NOTE? [In reply to] Can't Post

She calls This Peice
"Running River"

Sound Familiar?
The Running River
Leads from The Lonely Mountain to
LakeTown"

Coincidence?
Maybe Not...

Bomby


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 19 2013, 7:46pm

Post #41 of 43 (218 views)
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But let's not forget... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that the audience is there so far.

I am sure PJ is aware of the fact that his projects have to appeal to enough people... Actually that is why he is trying to do things like HFR, to keep the cinema experience unique.

Dismissing in the context of the quote and how he has elaborated on criticism in the past seems like a harsh word to me still, but we can agree to disagree ;)



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 19 2013, 10:19pm

Post #42 of 43 (170 views)
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He has a massive audience.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't forget how successful AUJ was.

And as for saying that he hasn't accepted criticism, you can't possibly know that - you're assuming that you know what any notional criticism would have been, but that's a huge assumption.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 19 2013, 11:04pm

Post #43 of 43 (172 views)
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It seem that's exactly what PJ has said from his quote... [In reply to] Can't Post

regarding accepting criticism (that he "doesn't pay attention").

BTW, what I was attempting to say was that one can't dispel with the audience (in its entirety) in the popular creative process.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

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