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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Luke Evans on DoS ... could this mean that - *spoilers*

Arandir
Gondor


Oct 18 2013, 11:57am

Post #1 of 20 (1355 views)
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Luke Evans on DoS ... could this mean that - *spoilers* Can't Post

the attack on Lake-town will be happening in DoS. The article seems to indicate this evente, as does the title itself that Bard will be "facing dragons" ... but it's still uncertain I guess.

Link

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'

(This post was edited by Arandir on Oct 18 2013, 11:58am)


tolktolk
Lorien

Oct 18 2013, 12:16pm

Post #2 of 20 (625 views)
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Film 2/3 [In reply to] Can't Post

I mentioned in another thread that I noticed both Luke and Martin revealed spoilers in these interviews:

Luke talks about Bard feeling betrayed by the company after the dragon destroys Laketown and going to Erebor to ask Thorin for reparations, only to be met by resistance.

Martin talks about a scene between Bilbo and Bofur which takes place as he is sneaking out with the Arkenstone, hoping to use it to negotiate a peace deal.

I think both these scenes will be in film three, but when these interviews were done last year the actors didn't know there would be a third film and thought they were talking about film two.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Oct 18 2013, 12:41pm

Post #3 of 20 (536 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

The clue is when Evans says "He's not in it for the majority of the first film..." As we now know with the 3-film split, he's actually not in it at all. The same happened with Evangeline Lilly (Tauriel).

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 18 2013, 1:01pm

Post #4 of 20 (523 views)
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I'm sure it will, but then, I was anyway... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the obvious climax to the film. They'd be mad to reduce it to just another scene in TABA. I wouldn't mind betting that 'that scene' was a major reason for switching to three films.


Skaan
Lorien


Oct 18 2013, 1:21pm

Post #5 of 20 (494 views)
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I hope you're right (some spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

But i somehow really doubt that Smaug's attack on Laketown will be in DoS. I just don't see enough room in the movie left for this, considering there's already so much other stuff happening (and supposedly DoS will be a bit shorter than AUJ, but that could still change ofcourse). There's also the fact that they've invented a confrontation between Smaug and the dwarves, which to me seems to suggest they did so to give the movie an action-packed finale (due to the lack of Smaug's attack on Laketown). And also, if the movie ends with Smaug's death, it could give some obvious problems with getting people to return to watch the third movie. Ofcourse those who have read the book or are familiar with the story know it doesn't end with Smaug's death, but those who didn't will probably feel like there's no point in watching the third movie.

Like i said, i really hope you're right and that Smaug's attack on Laketown is the finale of DoS. I think the transition between the (somewhat) calm, playful, cat-playing-with-mouse Smaug when he's talking with Bilbo, to the I-will-break-worlds angry Smaug when he goes to attack Laketown could give some spectacular finale, and this transition would lose its momentum when it's moved to the start of the third movie. But then again, if his attack on Laketown is the finale in DoS, i think there will be too few stuff left for the third movie.

In short, i hope his attack on Laketown will be in DoS and that the third movie will focus on the battle of Dol Guldur and the BOFA, but i somehow doubt it.


Gollum's_Apprentice
The Shire

Oct 18 2013, 1:23pm

Post #6 of 20 (482 views)
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well if dol guildur and the bo5a are both in taba [In reply to] Can't Post

(which i still dont buy cause then taba would be like 4 hours long (in the cinema)) then DOS needs to have SOME big scene so.....


Arandir
Gondor


Oct 18 2013, 2:13pm

Post #7 of 20 (438 views)
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Unless of course the dragon's attack is replaced [In reply to] Can't Post

by a more extensive flashback of Smaug's attack on Dale - in order to rectify it's omission in DoS ...?

Then again, there's the Dwarves vs Smaug confrontation which seems to replace the Lake-town attack, but I just can't see TABA beginning with such a climactic scene ...

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 18 2013, 2:31pm

Post #8 of 20 (408 views)
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Well... a flashback can't really be a climax, can it? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's instinct on my behalf really. I just feel that Lake Town is such a huge scene, and so vital to what happens next, that nothing else can be dramatic enough or important enough to supplant it. And Peter Jackson doesn't do cliff-hangers between one film and another. My betting is that the Dwarves' confrontation with Smaug will be part of the build up to Laketown.


Gollum's_Apprentice
The Shire

Oct 18 2013, 2:46pm

Post #9 of 20 (407 views)
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no way laketown is in TABA [In reply to] Can't Post

if dol guildur IS in TABA its pushing it as it is


dol guildur 1 hour
battle of five armies prep 45 min to 1 hour
battle itself 1 hour to 90 mins
certain deaths and bilbo going home 30 to 45 min

total 3.5 to 4 + 1/4 hours


(This post was edited by Gollum's_Apprentice on Oct 18 2013, 2:47pm)


Fleuz
Lorien


Oct 18 2013, 3:04pm

Post #10 of 20 (365 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I still don't think there will be a huge battle at Dol Guldur.


Arandir
Gondor


Oct 18 2013, 3:15pm

Post #11 of 20 (349 views)
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Yep [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just wondering since we're seeing Girion and a couple of Dale-under-attack shots in the trailer, whether PJ would insert those flashbacks as some kind of 'anticipation' move for what to expect in Lake-town (in TABA).

Though I completely agree with you. The attack on Esgaroth is a huge moment and DoS must not end with a cliff-hanger such as "the dragon flies off towards Lake-Town".


Quote
My betting is that the Dwarves' confrontation with Smaug will be part of the build up to Laketown.

I so hope you are right! Angelic

Then again, I agree with some people who state that there's too much ground to cover in DoS to include such a big sequence ... but neither do I support the beginning-of-TABA argument either - ahh! I do not know! Crazy

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Oct 18 2013, 3:18pm

Post #12 of 20 (346 views)
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Likewise [In reply to] Can't Post


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In short, i hope his attack on Laketown will be in DoS and that the third movie will focus on the battle of Dol Guldur and the BOFA,

Agreed. I'd rather they shift the attack of the White Council in TABA and put the Lake-Town sequence in DoS.


Quote
but i somehow doubt it.

Well, with the recent "unnamed-in-credits" trend, we might actually see the Dol Guldur battle in TABA after all Wink

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Oct 18 2013, 3:29pm

Post #13 of 20 (345 views)
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I concur about Smaug, but disagree with your breakdown [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
if dol guildur IS in TABA its pushing it as it is


dol guildur 1 hour
battle of five armies prep 45 min to 1 hour
battle itself 1 hour to 90 mins
certain deaths and bilbo going home 30 to 45 min

total 3.5 to 4 + 1/4 hours



Based on what we know now, I agree that Smaug's attack on Lake-town is likely to be the climax of DoS. However, I don't think that Dol Guldur or the Battle of the Five Armies will take as much screentime as you say. Rather, I think that TaBA would have a very slow pace leading up to the Battle if the assault on the Necromancer was not in the film.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


nhui06
Rivendell

Oct 18 2013, 4:03pm

Post #14 of 20 (307 views)
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Smaug needs to be wrapped up in DOS [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Smaug is going to be the star in at least the last third of DOS. People will want to pay money to see the confrontation between the Dwarves and the Dragon. Letting the dragon fly out to Laketown to end the film will be terrible because:

1.) Leaves a big cliff hanger for the audience, like cutting an awesome battle suddenly for no reason. Let Smaug go off an attack Laketown and finish his story

2.) Starting the Laketown attack at the beginning of TABA will be really anti-climatic if one really treasures Smaug. He probably won't last for more than 10-15 minutes, which is not a good send off. Give him his heroic (or anti-heroic) death as the climax ending for DOS.

There is plenty more story to be told in TABA (resolution of Gandalf VS Dol Guldur, preparation for BO5A, the battle itself, conclusion of the Dwarf party, journey home and any lead ups to FOTR. No need to hang on to Smaug.


joec_34
Rivendell


Oct 18 2013, 4:22pm

Post #15 of 20 (346 views)
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So many possibilities! ***Spoilers*** [In reply to] Can't Post

I cannot decide how I would most like to see DOS end: The company approaching the Lonely Mountain, Smaug flying off toward Laketown, or Smaug falling to the black arrow. Similarly I cannot decide if I want TABA to begin with action followed by tense waiting until more action, or just tense waiting followed by action. My heart hopes for the first, but I think PJ & Co will do a fine job with whatever structure they choose. Man, I wonder how much sleep (if any) PJ lost trying to decide the breakpoints and transitions in these movies.

"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Oct 18 2013, 6:29pm

Post #16 of 20 (222 views)
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No. I agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially if the White Council taking action against the Necromancer won't occur until the third film, the Dragon needs to be dealt with in The Desolation of Smaug (truly giving multiple meanings to the title). However, since Tolkien placed the Council's attack weeks before the Demise of Smaug and because Gandalf should arrive at Lonely Mountain by the time that Bilbo visits the besieging encampment, the attack on Dol Guldur needs to happen fairly early in There and Back Again.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 18 2013, 7:05pm

Post #17 of 20 (216 views)
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I will believe until the final hour... [In reply to] Can't Post

... That Smaug will live to see TABA. ;)



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


patrickk
Rohan

Oct 18 2013, 10:31pm

Post #18 of 20 (154 views)
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Do the cast know where the break between the two films occurs?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt it. They will know what they filmed but not where it will be located in the two next films. PJ may not even know that yet but I suspect he does.


patrickk
Rohan

Oct 18 2013, 10:36pm

Post #19 of 20 (141 views)
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...and that will enable Bilbo to 'the worst of it behind us' again [In reply to] Can't Post

...to gve another ironic chuckle from the audience


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 18 2013, 11:08pm

Post #20 of 20 (178 views)
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Dol Guldur is going to be much less of an event than people are expecting, methinks [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly don't think we'll see a huge battle or anything like that. That is coming at the Bo5A. Sadly, what we are going to see is the weakening of Gandalf as a character, with him being 'defeated' by the Witch-King and/or the Necromancer, and then saved by Galadriel.

I think DoS will end with Radagast dead and Gandalf on the brink of death, calling out to Galadriel, who will appear in the same manner as she did at Rivendell, out of nowhere (this is why they introduced this ability of hers in AUJ)

Early in TABA we will see the second White Council meeting where Saruman agrees to the overthrowing of Sauron from Dol Guldur. He will say that even though he didn't agree with Radagast's ways, the death of one of his Order cannot be ignored and Sauron must be removed before he becomes too powerful.

Though I'm convinced the confrontation with Sauron will be pretty short and sweet. The whole White Council subplot shouldn't take up any more than 20-30 minutes of TABA, leaving 2 hours to deal with Smaug's death, Bilbo's 'betrayal', the Bo5A and the conclusion. Sounds right to me.

 
 

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