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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Sexiness in the Hobbit trilogy?
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 12 2013, 11:34pm

Post #26 of 46 (305 views)
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Lusty Lusitano strikes again. lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

In Reply To
Well, i guess that would make someone like me a heathen for my actions two days ago Tongue

But i appreciate your concerns.

On the ops matter....hey, if its filmed in the inspiration and example of the nordic naturalistic tradition im all for it! :P

Instead of the question wether balrogs have wings or not, i want my doubts about Bilbo's Inherent Tookishness put to rest. AngelicWink


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 12 2013, 11:38pm

Post #27 of 46 (307 views)
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Agreed about the Nudity, yet not about Frodo. A little something was lost by him having pants. [In reply to] Can't Post

It didn't make any sense. I can understand them shying away from, you know... dingus. Yet, he should have been in a loincloth very much like Smeagol's/Gollum's (especially with the parallels they were trying to make twixt the two). As I have said afore, a bad bunch of orcs who have just finished searching a fellows "every crack, every crevice!" is not likely to turn around and say, "Now shove some damned pants on em! Have to mind his dececny, and can't have im offendin our fine moral standards with is barbarian nudity!" Wtf? Just, no. Frown lol

In Reply To
.

Nudity I would have less of an objection to because it's not necessarily a sexual thing. I would have had no problem with Frodo appearing naked as described in the book but he wasn't and nothing was really lost because if it. The nudity mentioned as being in the EE of AUJ will almost certainly be in a humorous context. My only concern there is if it's another example of the juvenile humor we saw a bit too much of in the TE. Tongue


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Starling
Half-elven


Oct 13 2013, 1:53am

Post #28 of 46 (288 views)
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A *pants* thread seems to be brewing here [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't participate. I'm still recovering from this:


I can understand them shying away from, you know... dingus.


Shocked



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Oct 13 2013, 2:22am

Post #29 of 46 (286 views)
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Forever watchfull, Ainur.... [In reply to] Can't Post

and with the hidden sexual power of a jungle cat!


The grey bum himself would not be immune to my dark powers !Evil

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 13 2013, 5:20am

Post #30 of 46 (263 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh Worry more over the Gray staff than the grey bum. . . oh dear, what has this thread become. lol

In Reply To
and with the hidden sexual power of a jungle cat!


The grey bum himself would not be immune to my dark powers !Evil


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 13 2013, 5:20am

Post #31 of 46 (268 views)
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lololol [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush

In Reply To
I can't participate. I'm still recovering from this:


I can understand them shying away from, you know... dingus.


Shocked


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kim
Valinor


Oct 13 2013, 7:16am

Post #32 of 46 (248 views)
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"You have no pants to enter the mountain" "I have the only pants" // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 13 2013, 7:37am

Post #33 of 46 (266 views)
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Spirit of Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

A considerable amount of energy has been/is invested in trying to establish whether we believe the changes in these two sets of movies are within or without the Spirit of Tolkien.

Tolkien deals with sacrifice/comradeship/loss/loyalty courage etc etc. He also deals in his adult novels with the emotional dynamics between men and woman and their affect and between sons and daughters and fathers and mothers and the effect of absent mothers. He deals with jealousy and covetousness.

The central story of his legendarium deals head on with the implication of boundless love brought on by a sense of higher destiny and an enchantment driven by an unswerving sense of personal emotional/spiritual and physical connection despite their differences. So it is in the spirit of Tolkien to uncover all the implications of unreserved undying love between a man and a woman and slightly lesser love. The trick is to realise that can all be done with out even answering your question and that is one of the great blessings that Tolkien gave us.

Hey that was serious! My apologiesWink

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 13 2013, 7:42am

Post #34 of 46 (247 views)
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I think you injected a little seriousness at just the right moment! [In reply to] Can't Post

(And I agree with every word you said.)


Brandybuckled
Lorien


Oct 13 2013, 2:34pm

Post #35 of 46 (225 views)
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It's a little known fact that the original bridge film... [In reply to] Can't Post

Was going to be called "50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey."

NAArP: Not An Ardent purist since Arda was dented



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Oct 13 2013, 8:22pm

Post #36 of 46 (197 views)
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And they say Tolkien fans are prudes [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


I need not worry over any grey staffs....i have the Strap On of Invisibility! Beware, foul old geeser! Evil

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 13 2013, 11:05pm

Post #37 of 46 (163 views)
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Forget the loincloth. [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought Peter would have had a couple close-ups involving the back of the strategically-placed orc in the foreground, partially blocking Frodo so the audience could imply that he was nude, and those intercut with shots of Frodo from the waist and chest up. Nothing lost on the kiddies whatsolever. But he chickened out for NL.

Drat and double drat, I still say after all these yrs. Sly


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 13 2013, 11:44pm

Post #38 of 46 (167 views)
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Agreed, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not questioning the quality of the material, Tolkien had far more sophistication than his critics gave him; there are plenty of complex relationships in the Sil to work with. But we are talking about sexiness vs intimacy. The Aragorn-Arwen relationship, which is far more complex than people sometimes admit, was handled very delicately, deftly and with great skill by mostly Fran Walsh
I think those scenes were far more "sexy" (I remember it was either the Entertainment Weekly or the Time reviewer who called them "highly charged") than the most explicit love scene b/c we as a culture have lost our regard for INTIMACY. Who was it who said that the act of sharing a bed with someone, of sleeping with them, was the most intimate thing of all, far more than romance? Same with a "love scene." Viggo said he played those scenes as if he and Arwen had been like those couples who had reached that stage of friendship, they finished each others' sentences, thought the same thoughts, their gestures were mutually anticipated, etc. Which I don't think we see in western culture anymore, and certainly not in TV or cinema, at least in Hollywood...divorce is so rampant, etc. Marriage in the truest sense is far more "sexy." Just the sight of Aragorn and Arwen standing within an inch or two of each other and yet not touching, talking that close but not yet kissing, the caressing of each other by their eyes, the slow and gentle interplay of their fingers, was an INCREDIBLE turn-on for me.So much implied sexual tension that could not, of course, be fulfilled then. Chastity is implied but not guaranteed. I remember the first time I saw TTT, it was almost unbearable to watch.. I felt as if I was intruding upon a private scene between the future King and Queen of Middle-earth, something not meant to be seen. And it is still unclear if Peter and Fran had written that scene implying that they were lovers in the physical sense. Arwen is quite comfortable wearing a nightgown like that around him, or is she in "seduction mode" while still being pure of heart and body. The TTT scenes were, I think, closest in spirit to what Tolkien was trying to achieve when he wrote his implied romantic relationships, and I think he would have approved had he been on set!

But "intimacy" is not what an HBO exec would want. The point I was trying to make was that directors would have the artistic freedom to work with relationships involving intimacy as opposed to our modern idea of cinematic "sexiness" for a movie, but NOT for TV, where you have to worry about, jaded appetities and cutthroat competition. Since the 1970's this has never been subtle, and on modern American cable TV it has, IMO, degenerated to the point of farce. If you are a male actor, you're expected to make like a locomotive at some point, often mostly nude, and most of the women have to shop for a merkin (dear God, I can't believe I've just typed that word on TORn.Blush And from both male and female, we always have to hear the moans and groans. Time was a man could remain stoically a man in a love scene, but no more. (I admit I couldn't sit through much of Man Of Steel without blushing to the roots of my hair b/c of my memories of Henry Cavill's, uh, performance in The Tudors. Not that that was a bad thing! And he's also a fantastic actor...HeheEvil

That's what I meant by the challenge of The Sil not being "sexy"-can you imagine all those "O's and "A!"s between Beren and Luthien in the hands of an HBO exec?
(see The Lay of Beleriand for the expanded Beren and Luthien). and I'm of the opinion that they DID have a relationship in the modern sense--"walking through woods" IMO being Tolkien's metaphor for...well, a lot of things.

(OK, let the purists come howling out of the woodwork:)


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Oct 13 2013, 11:53pm)


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 14 2013, 12:10am

Post #39 of 46 (174 views)
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This is the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

If you want any of this, just watch any recent Hollywood movie.
Also, The Hobbit doesn't need "sexy", it's a piece of art, not cheap Hollywood dribble.
And to the Tauriel and Legolas pairing: NO! It's bad enough they are even adding romance to the film, they don't need to add a cliche, Breaking Dawn scene.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 14 2013, 12:13am

Post #40 of 46 (159 views)
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That's a good way to put it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Why would the orcs shove pants on Frodo after doing a search? They're not decent creatures to begin with!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 14 2013, 12:54am

Post #41 of 46 (150 views)
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*creates blinding flash, dims visible form, turns Shadowfax and hastens away* [In reply to] Can't Post

*calls back over shoulder* I'm not foul, I bathe in the waters of Lothlorien! I'm a vision of cleanliness!

In Reply To
Wink


I need not worry over any grey staffs....i have the Strap On of Invisibility! Beware, foul old geeser! Evil


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 14 2013, 12:56am

Post #42 of 46 (148 views)
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Yeah, I really didn't get it. And when I think about the flying heads, I become rather irrate about it. [In reply to] Can't Post

THAT gore display was acceptable, but a Frodo who has been searched top to bottom, quite literally, by savage orc gets to keep his trousers? Come on now. Again, a Smeagol loin cloth would have made perfect sense. Side buttcheek to get the point across, but no cleft or frontal matter.


Lol. I am sorry they deprived you of those visuals. I really am. It was a ludicrous choice.

In Reply To
I always thought Peter would have had a couple close-ups involving the back of the strategically-placed orc in the foreground, partially blocking Frodo so the audience could imply that he was nude, and those intercut with shots of Frodo from the waist and chest up. Nothing lost on the kiddies whatsolever. But he chickened out for NL.

Drat and double drat, I still say after all these yrs. Sly


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Oct 14 2013, 12:57am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 14 2013, 1:00am

Post #43 of 46 (143 views)
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Yeah, it was a bizzare choice. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Why would the orcs shove pants on Frodo after doing a search? They're not decent creatures to begin with!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 14 2013, 4:46am

Post #44 of 46 (139 views)
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Okay [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been off TORn for a bit due to my computer getting hit by a nasty virus, I've only got it back a few days ago and am giving it TLC. I've had a lot to catch up on, but have been determined to remain spoiler-free. I've had no real Hobbit news since early August, and only seen Trailer 1 in the theater. Nothing else.
nevertheless I am getting the impression that something rather shocking may be taking place involving Tauriel. Romance? Peter pushing the PG-13 rating a bit? What giveth? What's inspired this thread anyway? I may as well prepare for the worst, so go ahead and spoil me!

PS. Frodo undergoing what we euphemistically call a...cavity search. By the..well, dear Eru. I hadn't thought of that when reading ROTK. I'm glad I had my dinner a while ago. UGH.

I think we need to get back on the "50 Shades of Gandalf The Grey" track, LOL. And I'm sure Sir Ian would really love that remark!


Symbelmine
Rohan


Oct 14 2013, 9:14pm

Post #45 of 46 (118 views)
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Exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was about to write the same but you did it for me Smile


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 16 2013, 1:14am

Post #46 of 46 (105 views)
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Your welcome. [In reply to] Can't Post

I like your avatar by the way. Cool

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