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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bof5A (lengthy theory) SPOILERS!

boldog
Rohan

Oct 8 2013, 10:10am

Post #1 of 21 (943 views)
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Bof5A (lengthy theory) SPOILERS! Can't Post

Okay this has been my latest thought for the hobbit trilogy and it is concerning the deaths of several main characters. I will give you a run down from the first death, and how they all tie in to the final death. I will also try and describe locations, choreography, and vocabulary.! So bear with me! and please no hate if you don't like any of my ideas, remember its just a theory~Wink

So it begins during the peak of the Bo5a. Thorin has come out to fight with the rest of the company, by knocking down the walls of erebor as it is mentioned in the book. As they are fighting Thorin, Fili and Kili, find themselves separated from the rest, and in heavy combat with the orcs. They eventually become surrounded, and fight their way back to a ledge, where an entrance to the mountain is. Bolg, having the same mentality as his father (wanting to wipe the line of durin also) sees the three on the ledge and makes his way there. But before he can attack the dwarves he is stopped short by an old enemy of his. Beorn. Beorn, tells the dwarves to hurry into the mountain, and he begins to duel with Bolg. (Beorn is in his human form) they fight at first with Beorn wielding his axe, and Bolg with two of his swords (the ones we see in his toy). But as the fight gets more aggressive, they both disarm eachother, and the fight becomes a wrestle. Eventually Bolg gets the better of Beorn and throws him off the ledge. Laughing with joy and proclaiming himself for slaying the last Beorning, Bolg looks down to see his fallen foe. But to his shock Beorns body wasn't there. All of a sudden Beorn leaps up at Bolg, now full of wrath and transformed into a bear, and starts to absolutely throw bolg around like a toy. Azog, who was fighting below in the distance, happens to see his son getting smashed by Beorn, and looks on in horror. As they are fighting, Bolg manages to get up but all of a sudden, beorn slashes one of his sharp claws at Beorns throat, and thus slices it open. (yes a bit graphic) Bolg, Holds his throat in shock, as he is about to die, and looks down towards Azog. There they get eye contact, and Bolg watches him While Beorn, charges at the mortally wounded Bolg and pushes him off the ledge. Bolg falls and is impaled by an Orc spear. Azog, now full of wrath, began to cut his way through the ranks to the location of his fallen son. There they exchange final words. Bolg tells Azog that he almost had thorin, but Beorn stopped him short. With this Bolg dies. Azog then looks up to the ledge where, Bolg fell, and there looking down at him is Thorin, his long hated nemesis. Azog, constantly eyeing thorin, picks up one of Bolgs swords and slowly makes his way to the ledge where Thorin is.

after this a montage of clips from other characters will happen throughout the battle.

We then go back to Azog, walking into the mountain itself. He enters into the main chamber, which we saw in the prologue that had many bridges everywhere, and a long fall to the bottom. There waiting for him is Thorin and his two Nephews. They exchange words with eachother, with Azog telling him that he is a coward for letting his own heirs die with him. Thorin says some abusive things to Azog and the four begin to duel. This is the first of three that will undergo with Azog and the three characters. this one is the shortest. So the four are fighting on the bridge within erebor. But due to Smaugs occupation of the mountain, many of the architecture within the mountain began to fall apart, and was starting to crumble. (like Moria fotr) As they are fighting a large bit of architecture falls in between them. This causes thorin to separate form his nephews and Azog. Plus to make things worse, the part of the bridge which thorin was on, began to fall into the abyss below, and thorin just managed to jump onto a lower platform, before the bridge fell to the depths below. Now he had to make his way all the way up to the other three, which required a lot of stairs, and many more bridges below. Thorin could see them above him for most the time as he was trying to get back. So now begins the second duel. This time it is Fili and Kili against Azog. The two brothers fight the best they ever had against him, full of bravery, loyalty and honour. they were both armed with a sword each, while Azog had his prosthetic hand, and Bolgs sword. So during this fighting sequence we constantly swap between Throin trying to make his way up to them, watching them as he goes, and the actual fight. But as we get deeper in the fight, the Brothers (no being veteran fighters) Start to loose energy and strength, and then in a quick swift move, Azog manages to stab right through the stomach of Fili. (the older) Thorin sees this and yells "FILLI!", as he moves faster up. Kili in wrath for his brothers wound, and in defense of him, fights harder, but he too is overpowered by Azog, who manages to stab him in the shoulder, and punch him to the floor. Though he was not as wounded as his brother was, Kili began to crawl in pain and defeat towards his brother. Thorin at this time is going insane yelling and running and crying to his fallen nephews before it is too late. As kili crawls towards his dying brother, Azog kicks him, thus wounding him even more. Kili gets to his brother, and holds his hand, as their foreheads touch. he whispers to Fili "we die together" With this, comes some very emotional hope lost kind of music, where we see Thorin running now being too late, and in slow motion we see Azog make his first swing at Kili. The swing which cleans off his head. It then goes to thorin, almost soaked in tears. Then we see the dying Fili, still holding his brothers hand, and Azog makes his second swing and cuts off his head. Thus the death of the two nephews of thorin, and the two heirs of the line of durin. Thorin then finally gets back, and runs past Azog to his dead nephews, and hugs there lifeless bodies, while he cries. Azog laughs and mocks him by saying there is only one more to kill. Thorin immidiateley gets up and begins to duel Azog, in the longest and most epic of all the duels. This one will go for some time, and it will see them, fighting from bridge to bridge, avoiding falling ruins, hanging off cliffs, and eventually will end with the two duelling it out below the throne of Thror (which we saw in the prologue of AUJ) They will fight, and once again Azog gets the advantage, and stabs thorin in the stomach. Thorin then falls to the ground. Azog bends down ontop of him, and makes ready to cut off thorins head mocking him as he is doing so, by saying "ALAS!, the line of durin is finally ended, I am the superior." But then Thorin manages to get a knife into Azogs side. Azog jolts in hesitation, and Thorin stabs him again in the side of the throat. They grapple eachother,and eventually Thorin gets the righter hand, and goes ontop of azog. (This is based on one of those photos that peter Jackson put up during his final day of shooting) He then says in return of Azogs mock "The line is not yet destroyed" he stabs Azog again in the neck. "Dain yet lives" Azogs eyes become full of Anger and he begins to choke thorin. Thorin now about to die, just gets enough strength, and stabs Azog one last time, thus killing him once and for all. Thorin, then falls down and goes into a deep swoon. It then cuts into a montage of clips of him being carried by people, and eventually he regains he consciousncess on his death bed in a tent outside the mountain. He is dying and asks desperately for Bilbo, as he needed to speak to him urgently.

And we all know what happens next.....

So what do you all think? please read it all, I know its long, but its something ive always wanted to write.
Thanks in regards Sly

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Oct 8 2013, 6:00pm)


Shagrat
Gondor

Oct 8 2013, 10:23am

Post #2 of 21 (479 views)
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Too late for spoilers [In reply to] Can't Post

The thread title is horrendously spoilerific as it is!

In relation to your theory, I'm really not a fan of the Beorn aspect. I want his arrival to be a surprise, when all hope is lost, and as Bolg or Azog is about to finish off Thorin (even though he is already mortally wounded). Beorn must be enormous, and cut a whole swathe through the enemy army by himself.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Oct 8 2013, 10:28am)


chris10112
Bree

Oct 8 2013, 10:26am

Post #3 of 21 (449 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that's possibly the funniest thread title I've seen in a while.


boldog
Rohan

Oct 8 2013, 10:28am

Post #4 of 21 (436 views)
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nevermind the thread title.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...what about the information, I spent like a whole night writing it down! lol

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 8 2013, 10:30am

Post #5 of 21 (421 views)
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Phew! Took me a while but I got there. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow that's quite a theory. My first instinct is that it is basically a combination of the Darth Maul vs Qui Gon and Obi Wan duel in Star Wars Episode 1 and the Obi Wan vs Anakin duel in Episode 3. Tongue

But to be honest, I think its very far fetched. And I doubt what we see will be anywhere near this complex.


boldog
Rohan

Oct 8 2013, 10:32am

Post #6 of 21 (404 views)
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yeah i know.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.....just wanted to get it out of my system. the darth maul and obiwan and qui gon concept is where I did get my vision from anywayBlush

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 8 2013, 10:36am

Post #7 of 21 (429 views)
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Oh no... just now a friend of mine was sitting next to me and saw the title :( [In reply to] Can't Post

She did not know yet... An edit of the title would really be appreciated.


Certainly a version of the scene that could be very powerful on screen... though I would not want Azog and Bilg exchanging last words and include Tauriel's death at some point quite early in the battle. Also, I am not sure I would like them to go inside Erebor... as far as I can tell from the trailers, the climax of DoS will be Smaug hunting the Dwarves inside the mountain... I would rather have PJ use the snow/mountain setting during the Bot5A.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 8 2013, 10:38am)


Shagrat
Gondor

Oct 8 2013, 10:36am

Post #8 of 21 (422 views)
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A couple more points [In reply to] Can't Post

The stuff in Erebor seems a bit Phantom Menace-y.

The decapitations seem far too extreme. I really don't think that will happen to Kili and Fili, it would really shock and traumatize younger viewers.


EDIT: I see I wasn't the first to notice the Phantom Menace thing. Wink


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Oct 8 2013, 10:37am)


boldog
Rohan

Oct 8 2013, 10:37am

Post #9 of 21 (400 views)
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i dont know how to edit it!! [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry!!!

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


boldog
Rohan

Oct 8 2013, 10:41am

Post #10 of 21 (394 views)
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but decapitating will not be in a gorry way [In reply to] Can't Post

we wont see much just their heads fall to the floor. no blood anywhere. Gee I must be more of a sadist then Bolg himself with this stuff. thank Eru that I didn't direct these movies!!Tongue

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Oct 8 2013, 10:45am

Post #11 of 21 (377 views)
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I made a post about the Beorn vs Bolg duel myself, last week. [In reply to] Can't Post

Your scene is pretty much exactly like mine lol, with Beorn beginning in human-form, falling off a ledge, and then jumping back up in bear-form to maul Bolg! Great minds think alike Tongue !

I don't know about the part where Azog approaches Bolg and they have some last words - I don't think it fits Azog's character. I personally could see Azog finishing a wounded Bolg off himself, for having been so "weak" - much as he did to that other orc in AUJ.

As for the fight with Azog against Thorin, Fili and Kili - I too saw great similarities to the final duel in the Phantom Menace. But, I kinda like the idea of the final battle being within Erebor itself. However, I'd much rather see the duel begin there, maybe have Azog slaying Fili and Kili there, then make it's way outside. I imagine Thorin and Azog fighting high up, overlooking the battlefield, so that when Thorin (or Dain, whoever) finally kills Azog for all the orcs to see, they become demoralised and the tide of the battle turns in favour of the Dwarves, Men and Elves.


Shagrat
Gondor

Oct 8 2013, 10:46am

Post #12 of 21 (376 views)
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I appreciate that [In reply to] Can't Post

But seeing the heads of the two popular young Dwarves held aloft - that would undoubtedly be the darkest thing in any Middle Earth film to date. I think kids would find it very distressing. I'd be hugely surprised if any of the 'good' characters were dismembered like that.


boldog
Rohan

Oct 8 2013, 10:54am

Post #13 of 21 (372 views)
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Boromir stark [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole Beorn and Bolg thing evolved from that post you mentioned a week ago. I really liked that idea, and that's how I want to see it anyway. I just added more to it Wink

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 8 2013, 12:40pm

Post #14 of 21 (314 views)
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I've edited it for you. [In reply to] Can't Post

In future, if you need an edit when your own 10-minute edit window has passed, post a message on the Feedback board with the changes you want made and a link to the post and the next Admin to check the boards will make the edit for you.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Oct 8 2013, 1:33pm

Post #15 of 21 (292 views)
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Could happen any number of ways... [In reply to] Can't Post

Without getting my hopes up too much, I'm hoping that PJ sticks with the books, so that Bolg kills Thorin, Beorn kills Bolg, and Dain kills Azog (even though that should have happened 142 years earlier).

I know I'm probably in the minority on this, but I'm really not concerned with Thorin getting his revenge on Azog.


Radagast's Lead Bunny
Rivendell

Oct 8 2013, 2:03pm

Post #16 of 21 (272 views)
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BOFA [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope the death of Thorin is exactly like in the book. With Beorn arriving too late to save him and his nephews but killing the orcs.

Please no Thoring fleeing in the halls. No Tauriel sky-diving and stuff like that. Mad


Arandir
Gondor


Oct 8 2013, 4:03pm

Post #17 of 21 (225 views)
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Agreed! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Oct 8 2013, 4:05pm

Post #18 of 21 (250 views)
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The Battle needs to take place entirely outside [In reply to] Can't Post

isolating Thorin, Fili and Kili will minimize the impact of the battle itself.

It needs to be played out as in the book - since the scene with Thorin bursting out of the gate to come to the aid of the good forces is significant to the theme of redemption.

Having them go back inside Erebor wouldn't make much sense IMO; apart from the fact that whatever happens to them, has to involve the rest of the other armies - they need to find themselves overwhelmed on the actual battlefield.Smile

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'

(This post was edited by Arandir on Oct 8 2013, 4:07pm)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 8 2013, 6:01pm

Post #19 of 21 (200 views)
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I've edited it for you. :) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


burgahobbit
Rohan


Oct 9 2013, 1:11am

Post #20 of 21 (142 views)
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Great theory! [In reply to] Can't Post

Really nice theory boldog! I rally enjoy lengthy theories based off of pure speculation like this, especially when they work so well.

As many others have pointed out, this is a lot like The Phantom Menace. But if there is a battle inside the mountain on this bridge it will automatically feel like Star Wars TPM anyway no matter what happens (and I doubt PJ would be able to resist crashing bridges and characters being separated). Also, it won't be the first time with this whole Azog/Thorin plot that I've been reminded of this scene from TPM. When Azog throws Thror's head and Thorin yells "Nooo!!!!!!!" I just thought, "cheesy Star Wars cliché." Maybe others didn't feel this way, but I felt it was overdone. However, this scene, while similar to Star Wars, would not come across as too cheesy. It will also be a great shocker when all three of the heroes die, nothing like that has happened in Star Wars and I don't think anyone will think about the Star Wars similarities as much as what is actually happening to the characters. The part where Thorin says, "The line is not yet destroyed. Dain yet lives" is incredible. Mark my words, that line will be used just as you had it. (Not that I'm psychic or anything, but that just sounds perfect for the scene).

Anyway, I really enjoyed reading your post, and I expect to see something fairly similar in the film.

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.


boldog
Rohan

Oct 9 2013, 1:33am

Post #21 of 21 (154 views)
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thanks heaps burga hobbit!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"

 
 

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