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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
beornings in dol guldur?


Oct 8 2013, 1:31am

Post #1 of 9 (618 views)
beornings in dol guldur? Can't Post

Just a thought based on the fact that beorn is the last of his people, and that azog was responsible for their downfall. Could gandalf discover not only a mad thrain but some few survivors of the beorning persecutions? It could add a little more depth to beorns story, and show a connection between azog and dol guldur. Besides Jackson even hinted at the fact that there may be more than 5 armies at bofa, so could perhaps a beorning army be present. Perhaps beorn believes he is the last of his kind, when really there are still some more around. Just a thought....

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Oct 8 2013, 3:26am

Post #2 of 9 (326 views)
I didn't know that [In reply to] Can't Post

What did Jackson say about more armies at BOFA? How can there be more? the number of armies is in the name

About the Beornings, I haven't really given much thought to it but maybe will see their bodies maybe a few left alive but too far tortured and out of their minds to do anything

The Tenth Walker
The Shire

Oct 8 2013, 4:00am

Post #3 of 9 (312 views)
I thought [In reply to] Can't Post

that it was Richard Armatige who said that there would be more than 5 armies at Bofa. I thought he said jokingly that perhaps it should be called the Battle of Six Armies.

I have tried to list them:
1. Dvarves
2. Elves
3. Goblins
4. Eagles
5. Men
6. Either a reference to Bilbo, Azogs orc's or your guess Beornings.

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." J.R.R Tolkien

Old Pilgrim

Oct 8 2013, 5:23am

Post #4 of 9 (286 views)
Orcs [In reply to] Can't Post

They will probably be the sixth army and not Beornings (orcs in the trailer are probably marching on Erebor). I believe Beorn himself has a smaller role then we are expecting so putting new Beornings in is very unlikely while his story with Dol Guldur can be explained in one of his conversations with Gandalf and perhaps Gandalf can discover late some clue connected with them.


Oct 8 2013, 6:36am

Post #5 of 9 (274 views)
The Clouds Burst [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd hope that the five different armies were the same as in the book:

"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves."

The eagles, Beorn, Gandalf and Bilbo, bats (maybe trolls) can't really be considered armies. Though, I certainly think there were enough bats and eagles to warrant them being called an "army". The eagles only turn up at the very end as well - the Elves, Men and Dwarves had already done most of the hard work.

But I wouldn't be surprised if, in the films, it turned out to be:

Orcs of Dol Guldur and Gundabad & Wargs

I don't mind this change, as long as they make it clear which are the 5 armies (and which are the reinforcements). I don't want them changing it to The Battle of Seven Armies.

Boromir Stark

Oct 8 2013, 9:21am

Post #6 of 9 (212 views)
I'm with you on this one. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's called the Battle of Five Armies, not the Battle of Five Races, i.e, each race does not exactly have to equal one army.

It'll probably be as follows:

1. Dwarves
2. Men
3. Elves
4. Eagles
5. Orcs/Goblins/Wargs

The first four will all arrive seperatley, while the last three will arrive at the battle together and united as one giant army.

Lieutenant of Dol Guldur

Oct 8 2013, 11:28am

Post #7 of 9 (176 views)
The end of all magical beings comes closer [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book there were more Beornings at the time of LOTR. Frodo sees them and their land on fire while sitting on Amon Hen. But I think PJ changed it a little.

Pre-Hobbit-era: Beorn was the only man who learned or always had the ability to turn into a giant bear.
Hobbit-era: Beorn was the only man...
Post-Hobbit-era: After Beorns death his son Grimbeorn is mentioned as the leader of the Beornings. Also there is this scene I mentioned before where the Beornings were attacked by forces of Sauron.

Jackson-canon (theory based on a few facts):
Pre-Hobbit-era: More Beornings, more like a single race of Men. Tall and with the ability to turn into giant bears. Wiped out by Azog, Bolg and their Orcs from Gundabad (perhaps on behalf of the Necromancer?). Beorn remains as the only being of his kin.
Hobbit-era: Beorn is the only surviving member of the Beornings, although he might be the strongest of all
Post-Hobbit-era: No Beornings mentioned or shown. Perhaps extinct because there was no female member of this race. Reminds me a little of the fate of the Ents.

If that's their canon there shouldn't be other Beornings left than Beorn. Why? Well.. why weren't they mentioned in one of the LOTR movies as in the books? Extinction would be a great introduction to the more realistic and darker world of LOTR. It's like Treebeards story about the slow extinction of the Ents. No one cares about the nature anymore. The female Ents are gone, the Elves are leaving Middle-earth, the Dwarves only care about their own business. Middle-earth was once a fairy-tale-like place with lot's of magical beings but one after another the world tuns into our world. It's a strong topic, if you ask me

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

Long Hammer
The Shire

Oct 8 2013, 12:55pm

Post #8 of 9 (157 views)
as I recall [In reply to] Can't Post

the 5 armies were


it is all a matter of perception who else you can count as an army. The strange part is that in the movie wargs seem to only be transport for orcs, so I am not sure what they have in mind


Oct 8 2013, 2:34pm

Post #9 of 9 (153 views)
Surely they wouldn't be called 'Beornings"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Movie-Beorn is supposed to be the last of his people. They wouldn't name themselves after the last of their chieftains, but the first. Or do we think that the name Beorn has been passed down through the ages, much like the Longbeard Dwarves have had several kings named Durin?

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


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