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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Royd Tolkien doing a cameo in DOS!

TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 1 2013, 5:38pm

Post #1 of 14 (900 views)
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Royd Tolkien doing a cameo in DOS! Can't Post

Just published it on his Twitter:




https://twitter.com/...s/385095592378384384

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 1 2013, 5:40pm

Post #2 of 14 (452 views)
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Good for him Ė I like that idea! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well done him (I remember his brief appearance in ROTK).


Brethil
Half-elven


Oct 1 2013, 6:28pm

Post #3 of 14 (354 views)
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Fantastic that he is excited about it [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting this! Smile

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!








Alex Maglor
Bree


Oct 1 2013, 7:03pm

Post #4 of 14 (336 views)
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At last... [In reply to] Can't Post

One Tolkien family member proud of the films of Peter Jackson!


malickfan
Gondor


Oct 1 2013, 7:25pm

Post #5 of 14 (300 views)
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Why should they have to be proud of the films? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not saying Royd Tolkien shouldn't support the films if he wishes (he is a filmaker by trade I believe so is obviously more in tune with the needs of cinematic adapation), and I do think the Tolkien family should at least be proud the books have inspired such hardworking sucessful filmakers but the notion that the Tolkien family not supporting the films is a bad one, isn't one I entirely agree with.

Personally, if the Tolkien estate views the films, and the related commercialisation of Tolkien's work with a negative light then I see no reason to be angry with their personal opinion-they obviously want to draw attention away from the loosely inspired films (with which they have no involvement,and obivously see as incompatible with the books) and after all the estate's governing board was set up by Tolkien to administer his wishes and needs as he saw fit, if Christopher Tolkien the man who knew his father better than anyone else alive sees diassociating themselves from the films as the best way to execute the wishes of Tolkien and the needs of the estates primary purpose then who am I to blame him.

I hardly see that Christopher Tolkien should need to be proud of the films, as Peter Jackson a self confessed casual fan is stretching out a simple childrens story written for his own enjoyment into three bloated action heavy films arguably at odds with the tone and purpose of Tolkien's story.

Whatever the films strengths and flaws as films, their sucess and merit as adaptions of Tolkien's work is debatable, as is the impact and legacy on the way Tolkien's work is percieved and I don't see it as necessary that the estate should share any public opinions, posistive or negative on the matter.

Then again I'm an ill informed grumpy git, so what do I know.

Still should be fun trying to spot Royd's cameo, I'm banking on a non speaking Laketowner extra.

I don't have much to say.



Arannir
Valinor


Oct 1 2013, 8:03pm

Post #6 of 14 (251 views)
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I think Alex did not say they should be proud, to be fair. [In reply to] Can't Post

Other than that, I agree with most of what you said... Although I personally found the public comments by Christopher Tolkien as rather ignorant of the thought that went into the adaptions.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


malickfan
Gondor


Oct 1 2013, 8:19pm

Post #7 of 14 (229 views)
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I wasn't intended as an attack at Alex (if you are offended Alex my sincere apologies-not my intetion at all), regarding C.Tolkien... [In reply to] Can't Post

I too was a little angry at C.Tolkien's very strong disregard to the films 'action films for 15-25 year olds' was rather insulting IMO-whatever the LOTR's trilogy's faults they were on the whole massively accomplished films, considerably more than action films (though IMO the films were largely guided by action sequences-at least far more than the book).

But as I said the estate has no direct say or involvement in the films, and though I don't entirely agree with Christopher Tolkien's opinions I totally understand them (and to be honest firmly support his desire to not allow any further adapaions)-as a 88 year old intensely private man who has poured his heart in soul into guarding the legacy of his father's work (a work he had considerable influence on), I fully understand his anger with the perception and fanbase of his father's work's being increased/changed so dramatically without any influence-the 40 years he had spent as custodian of his father's work was arguably sidelined by the sucess of 3 films in the 2000's (though as I understand it he actually turned down a request from Jackson to advise on the film, I may be wrong).

Perhaps his comments were ignorant of the films good point, becuase he was ignorant of how they were made?

You only have to look at TV, Films or other books nowadays and see how the films have become just as popualr as the books, perhaps even more so-almost all my friends have seen the LOTR films, but very few see the point in reading the book, and those that did were surprised at the differences. To some of them Lord of the Rings to them is a film series that improved on the books by making the film more modern and relevant, it's their loss.

I don't have much to say.



Arannir
Valinor


Oct 1 2013, 8:48pm

Post #8 of 14 (201 views)
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Don't get me wrong. [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of C. Tolkien's feelings and thoughts are quite understandable. However, especially when I look at the open-mindedness Tolkien himself seemed to have for the adaptions of his books (and some of his hopes that others might take over where he left of), C. Tolkien seemed to give himself the role of some sort of inquisitor, borderlining to be insulting and ignorant with some statements, one of which you have quoted. And all this while he gave himself quite some freedom as well with the Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin (for which he is also criticized by some of the hyper-purists, I will not judge on that, just mention it to show how easily ones harsh policy can turn against oneself).

I always understood, that JRR Tolkien wanted to create a would-be-mythology for England. A mythology others read, told of, worked with, etc. That is exactly what has happened - as with the mythologies of old. Sure, it happens in modern ways, but it has happened. Arda and its history has come as close to a "real" mythology as probably any modern collection of stories and novels will ever come (with "real" I mean the mythologies of the ancient world). And the movies did add quite a bit to this legacy (let alone multiplied the financial outcome for everybody involved with any works of Tolkien).

But when I read C. Tolkien's comments on the movies, I did not feel he was treating his father's work as a mythology, but more like a book written in stone - with the act of changing or adapting something (especially for a 21st century audience) being close to herecy.

But to close the cycle, I do agree with what you wrote. If one scratches some unkind comments by C. Tolkien he has acted rather wisely by not publicly saying much about these works and we (or I) shouldn't put words into his mouth or thoughts into his brain. He certainly has given us Tolkien lovers a lot to be thankful for. What I have written about inquisitors, herecy and books written in stone is actually something much more applicable to many self-proclaimed Tolkien-hyper-purists than his honourable son.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 1 2013, 8:50pm)


malickfan
Gondor


Oct 1 2013, 9:26pm

Post #9 of 14 (165 views)
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This was a good post, and I can certainly see where you are coming from... [In reply to] Can't Post


But a few points I disagree on

Quote
A lot of C. Tolkien's feelings and thoughts are quite understandable. However, especially when I look at the open-mindedness Tolkien himself seemed- -that is the crux of the matter we simply don't know how he would react to the films either way, save for a few scraps of letters. to have for the adaptions of his books (and some of his hopes that others might take over where he left of) -wasn't Tolkien reffering to other writers and poets in this context?, certainly not filmakers or other adapting his own work not adding to it, And as far as I can remember these were ideas mooted in the earliest stages of his mythology when it was simply a private pastime known to himself and a few friends, certainly in his later years Tolkien openly refuted this (its in letters unless I'm wrong again!, and seemed much more hardened to his work, I seem to recall him lamenting that copyright didn't extend to fictional languages! , C. Tolkien seemed to give himself the role of some sort of inquisitor, borderlining to be insulting and ignorant with some statements, one of which you have quoted. And all this while he gave himself quite some freedom as well with the Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin (for which he is also criticized by some of the hyper-purists, I will not judge on that, just mention it to show how easily ones harsh policy can turn against oneself)

-Again I see where you are coming from, but personally I think as Tolkien's sole literary executor (incidently Tolkien chose a family member not an author that alone tells me of his faifth in his son) he is better qualifed than anyone else in regards to his work, if anything he should be applauded jugdging by Tolkien's will!

http://sacnoths.blogspot.co.uk/...2/tolkiens-will.html
"publish edit alter rewrite or complete any work of mine which may be unpublished at my death or to destroy the whole or any part or parts of any such unpublished works as he in his absolute discretion may think fit and subject thereto"



I always understood, that JRR Tolkien wanted to create a would-be-mythology for England. A mythology others read, told of, worked with, etc. That is exactly what has happened - as with the mythologies of old. Sure, it happens in modern ways, but it has happened. Arda and its history has come as close to a "real" mythology as probably any modern collection of stories and novels will ever come (with "real" I mean the mythologies of the ancient world). And the movies did add quite a bit to this legacy (let alone multiplied the financial outcome for everybody involved with any works of Tolkien)

-Again totally true, but Jackson's are by his own admission merely an interpretation of the book, not a replacement or an add on (though some of the dialogue in AUJ gave me the impression the screenwriters thought they were telling Tolkien's 'true' version of the hobbit...)

But when I read C. Tolkien's comments on the movies, I did not feel he was treating his father's work as a mythology, but more like a book written in stone - with the act of changing or adapting something (especially for a 21st century audience) being close to herecy.

-Again it's an extreme view, but at least he isn't one to back down on his views.




I've got to say It makes a nice change to have such a civil conversation about such a controversial topic, far too often have I seen (and participated in on the odd occasion) flame wars on this forum for no real reason.

Anyway them's me thoughts

Wink

I don't have much to say.



Arannir
Valinor


Oct 1 2013, 9:33pm

Post #10 of 14 (151 views)
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Me too, thanks for the discussion :) I guess our last two posts sum our respective views up quite well, so I will leave it at that. For now :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


I've got to say It makes a nice change to have such a civil conversation about such a controversial topic, far too often have I seen (and participated in on the odd occasion) flame wars on this forum for no real reason.

Anyway them's me thoughts

Wink




ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


malickfan
Gondor


Oct 1 2013, 9:37pm

Post #11 of 14 (149 views)
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Agreed. I really should go to sleep soon anyway. [In reply to] Can't Post

Mods are you reading this? Do me and Arranir get a prize for being good?

Wink

I don't have much to say.



Arannir
Valinor


Oct 1 2013, 9:50pm

Post #12 of 14 (145 views)
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If you get a bigger cookie than me I will be p-o-ed though ;) Sleep well and dream of dragons and hobbits in our beloved Middle-earth. That's what we all have in common here no matter what :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Mods are you reading this? Do me and Arranir get a prize for being good?

Wink




ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 1 2013, 11:22pm

Post #13 of 14 (123 views)
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Brownie points all around! [In reply to] Can't Post

Mmmmmm. Brownies.

Now I'm hungry. How about some dragon cupcakes instead to celebrate the DoS trailer?!



Sure,they look cute now, but I bet Smaug did too when he was just a little guy fresh out of the egg! Laugh


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





flameofudun
Lorien

Oct 2 2013, 2:49am

Post #14 of 14 (98 views)
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Wil do. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sleep does sound good. Can't wait till the beloved Friday when I don't have to get up and can dream of middle earth longer, which I will do!

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli

 
 

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