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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I think that was Girion in the trailer


Oct 1 2013, 2:43pm

Post #1 of 18 (942 views)
I think that was Girion in the trailer Can't Post

If you pause at 1:39, there is a shot of a man firing a catapult which resonates strongly with a Dale as it is being destroyed - also the shot after that is the same shot found in the AUJ prologue of a watch tower bursting into flames.

I'm pretty sure that this is the scene PJ was referring to in the Empire interview about seeing in the AUJ extended edition - with Girion firing arrows at the dragon.

I'm positive that we'll get more of the visuals of the dragon in a flashback on the attack on Dale once more (perhaps Bard recounting the history of his ancestors) - which certainly seems a possibility considering they've gone through so much labour to build a complete set and use it for just a few seconds in the AUJ prologue.

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Oct 1 2013, 2:48pm

Post #2 of 18 (492 views)
I was wondering about that fellow... [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't look like Bard, and I was wondering if that is Thorin, but it didn't really make sense to me to have him shoot that catapult.

If that is Girion in a flashback sequence, it would make sense. And it would be an interesting scene to see.


Oct 1 2013, 2:54pm

Post #3 of 18 (442 views)
Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

Those were my thoughts too. I think it is Girion.

I wonder if PJ has decided to put the scene in DESOLATION OF SMAUG as a flashback instead of in the UNEXPECTED JOURNEY EE?

It's interesting, also, that in both trailers Bard seems deadset against the dwarves' quest.

The Shire

Oct 1 2013, 2:54pm

Post #4 of 18 (438 views)
Me too! [In reply to] Can't Post

perhaps this scene was cut from AUJ EE?


Oct 1 2013, 2:55pm

Post #5 of 18 (460 views)
That guy [In reply to] Can't Post


could be him. But I think it's a random citizen.

Werde Spinner

Oct 1 2013, 2:59pm

Post #6 of 18 (418 views)
I had no idea who this guy was [In reply to] Can't Post

...so it makes sense that he'd be Girion, espcially with the shot of the watchtower exploding in flames following it. I recognized it from AUJ and was like, "What is *that* doing here?" But if it's a flashback explaining Bard's ancestry, it'll work for me.

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

Na Vedui

Oct 1 2013, 3:08pm

Post #7 of 18 (409 views)
Two things [In reply to] Can't Post

that *might* point to Girion rather than a random citizen:
- In this position of danger, he has no helmet to partly hide his face, unlike the other Dale guards, so seeing his identity might be important. (A bit like Elrond in the battle at the start of FOTR)
- He has that combed-back-from-the-forehead hairstyle that Bard has.

Mind you, I wouldn't put money on it!


Oct 1 2013, 3:12pm

Post #8 of 18 (378 views)
Pretty sure about that too. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was always pretty certain we would get a Girion flashback... though I thought it might be the prologue of TABA, and it some point it also sounded like at least some bits will also be added to the AUJ prologue.

But it might be a great flashback during the introduction of Laketwon.

A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Oct 1 2013, 3:19pm

Post #9 of 18 (382 views)
Yes, remember they visit Dale before entering [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lonely Mountain,
so it could be a more Fleshed out Flashback
of Smaug's Attack.

Also, It would make sense that they
LOOT Dale for supplies, Armor, etc.

Maybe, Dori finds much they could use.


Oct 1 2013, 3:26pm

Post #10 of 18 (369 views)
Just to be pernickety... [In reply to] Can't Post

...That weapon is a ballista rather than a catapult


Oct 1 2013, 3:30pm

Post #11 of 18 (337 views)
Oops you're right! [In reply to] Can't Post

In the frenetic moment to write this down I just couldn't think of the word ... many thanks!Blush

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Oct 1 2013, 4:07pm

Post #12 of 18 (301 views)
AUG EE Minutes, Bard & Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

If PJ did move that scene from AUJ EE to DOS, that could explain the decrease in EE minutes from what PJ had cited in an early interview.

I suppose that it makes sense that Bard should be skeptical from the get-go. Then when Smaug comes-a-calling he has a reason to be expecting it. Perhaps the return of the king under the mountain will really drum up Laketown's gold lust, but Bard will be the lone skeptic who doesn't let the gold cloud his judgment. Then we'd have a great contrast between Bard and Thorin that would cram even more meaning into the fact that Bard kills Smaug--not Thorin.

Man, I'm starting to get really excited for this movie.

"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross


Oct 1 2013, 5:24pm

Post #13 of 18 (208 views)
And maybe that's what will be used by Bard to kill Smaug ? [In reply to] Can't Post

it would be a reference to his own grandfather, and could be an actual way to kill a dragon.

Maybe even the weak point in Smaug's belly could be the cicatrice from this Ballista shot


Oct 1 2013, 5:30pm

Post #14 of 18 (191 views)
Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Whilst I really love the idea of Dale having set up ballistas for any possible dragon attacks, I'm adamant that Bard uses his bow to do the "thing" ... appropriately giving rise to his name: Bard the Bowman Smile

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Oct 1 2013, 6:19pm

Post #15 of 18 (154 views)
I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

Having some tension between Bard and Thorin is probably a good thing since it sets up their conflict in the third film nicely.


Oct 1 2013, 6:39pm

Post #16 of 18 (145 views)
True, and I forgot one other! ***Mild Book Spoiler Alert*** [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, that would set it up quite nicely.

In my prior post I made a terrible error when I suggested that Bard would be the only dissenting voice wrt the profitablity of the return of the king under the mountain. Certainly Bilbo dissents, as evidenced by his actions wrt the arkensone. So we have two folks who suspect that greed will not turn out so well. Again this contrast works well given Bilbo & Thorin's fate.

"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross

The Shire

Oct 3 2013, 1:00am

Post #17 of 18 (33 views)
I think it is [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was Girion too when I first saw the trailer. I know this sounds crazy, but what if Bard used a ballista with a huge black arrow in it to kill smaug? It would make it more believable that smaug was killed with one arrow.

Oin K

Oct 3 2013, 4:10pm

Post #18 of 18 (29 views)
I suspect that 'ballista' will be used to attempt to take down Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I do believe that may be Girion in a flashback. I'd love to see Bard hauling that thing out of storage and manning it. Those who know how it ends will naturally expect him to use it to take down the dragon. He takes aim, Smaug swoops in, and Bard lets fly. The great missile takes flight, and we get a dramatic POV of the arrow as it speeds towards Smaug, and then CRACK, it glances off his armored breast and falls useless into the water.

Enraged and amused, Smaug flies past and tears apart the ballista just as Bard dives into the water in a last-second escape.

Bard's true moment of victory comes later, when all is nearly lost, and the city is burning down around him. He stands alone, and Smaug is turning for another pass, when out of the north from the mountain flies a thrush, which alights on Bard's shoulder for a moment, chirps cryptically, then flies toward the dragon. Bard watches it, and as it narrowly avoids being roasted by dragon fire Bard notices the bare spot on Smaug's breast. With only his lucky Black Arrow left, and naught but a fool's hope remaining, he knocks the Arrow and draws it back. Smaug grins, and dives for the kill...

"The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep-breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their snouts were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a snoutless Dwarf - unless he were rhinoplasted in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have snouts from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..." (History of Middle Earth, volume 11, The War of the Truffles, p. 205)

(This post was edited by Oin K on Oct 3 2013, 4:18pm)


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