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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So, What Will Galadriel Do That Gandalf Could Not Do To Save or Help Him?
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Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 2:02pm

Post #51 of 75 (867 views)
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Bad acting or wrong creative choices are never just actor's fault [In reply to] Can't Post

At the end of the day, director calls shots and he instructs actors how to play their parts. Director can agree with actor's suggestion (classic example when Gore Verbinski loved Depp's crazy unique take on what was on paper just an Erroll Flynn throwback) in which case he lets the idea on the screen. So his/her judgement is really what seals the deal.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 18 2013, 2:38pm

Post #52 of 75 (861 views)
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Slomo [In reply to] Can't Post

In the commentaries Supervising Sound Editor Mike Hopkins notes Celeborn and Galadriel were filmed at 33 to 48 feet per second (fps). When the film is projected at the normal film speed of 24 fps, they appear to move more slowly. Jackson liked the look of etherealness. He also liked the sound of their voices. He felt it indicated the two were unused to speaking Westron.

******************************************
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Sometime hours and hours hence:
In The Green Dragon two ales could buy
And drank the one less filling I
And that has made all the difference.
- The Ale Less Filling, by Robert Frostymug


Bombadil
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 2:39pm

Post #53 of 75 (872 views)
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Bomby thinks WE are all Wrong... [In reply to] Can't Post

Phillipa Boyens will Step in..

"OUT of MYWay, Catie!" and Blow down the Doors of DolG

And TAKE SemperFI's "Graspin' @ Straws-House" TOO!

POOR, PB (The Most HATED WRITER in Cinema History?)

Bomby is her Biggest Fan...screw youzguys
and your lit'le dog too.

Phillipa reminds Bomby of Goldberry...she can cook me dinner anytime,
and None of you are invited...

She is getting a PayCheck
and None of YOU are................ NOT?

(Phil, honey you are a real credit to your profession and Bomby Hates it when those people are mean to you)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 2:48pm

Post #54 of 75 (863 views)
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I'm just speculating here, Bomby [In reply to] Can't Post

And I ain't bein' mean to no one. The thought had simply occurred that maybe we've been over-thinking this whole issue of Galadriel's power. Heck, I'm probably wrong; it is likely more akin to the power of Luthien who brought down Sauron's tower at Tol-in-Gaurhoth.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 3:01pm

Post #55 of 75 (855 views)
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I'd pay to see that [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm also totally fancasting (though I don't know who else could nail the part - she's so perfect!) Melissa McCarthy as Philippa in a movie about making of LOTR. I mean, c'mon, they made a movie about the making of Psycho and about Making of that Monroe/Olivier thing, so why not a movie about LOTR?

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 18 2013, 3:02pm

Post #56 of 75 (853 views)
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I think your previous suggestion is more likely! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, it would be all very nice and cinematic for Galadriel to emulate Luthien, and bring down the walls of DG with the power of her Song - but we mustn't forget that Luthien's magic was inherited from her Maia mother, plus she had also forced the secret "unbinding" words out of Sauron when Huan had him pinned by the throat...

I still can't see any concrete evidence for Galadriel's ability to destroy walls and cleanse the pits of DG - cleanse with the power of Nenya, perhaps, yes, but not to destroy. Can't help wondering if the dear Professor simply forgot that the power of Nenya would have dramatically weakened or disappeared with the destruction of the One Ring when he placed the destruction of DG after March 25th 3019... Unsure


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 3:28pm

Post #57 of 75 (842 views)
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I'd hate it if they Luthien-ize Galadriel [In reply to] Can't Post

Luthien is such a romantic figure and her magic is different kind from Galdriel's. It makes perfect sense that Luthien operates in the magic realm of enchanting songs that put villains to sleep, make hair go Rapunzel or simply that's she's so alluring a giant dog would fall in love with her. Galadriel magic is different kind, defintiely doesn't smack of romance so, song wouldn't work here,IMO.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 3:28pm

Post #58 of 75 (849 views)
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The concrete evidence is very simple... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien. According to him, Celeborn and the host of Lorien took Dol Guldur, 'and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.' The distinction is quite clear - the chaps do the fighting, she comes in afterwards and does..... whatever she does.

He doesn't specify how she does it, and it doesn't have to involve song. That would just be one way of showing it happen, and one that fits rather well into Tolkien's world. But whether she does it with magic or a bulldozer or a gang of mesmerized trolls, the evidence that she could do it, and did it is Tolkien. And he should know.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 3:30pm

Post #59 of 75 (839 views)
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Same here, Bomby // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 3:37pm

Post #60 of 75 (842 views)
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Well, J.R.R. Tolkien failed to explain it... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yes, it would be all very nice and cinematic for Galadriel to emulate Luthien, and bring down the walls of DG with the power of her Song - but we mustn't forget that Luthien's magic was inherited from her Maia mother, plus she had also forced the secret "unbinding" words out of Sauron when Huan had him pinned by the throat...

I still can't see any concrete evidence for Galadriel's ability to destroy walls and cleanse the pits of DG - cleanse with the power of Nenya, perhaps, yes, but not to destroy. Can't help wondering if the dear Professor simply forgot that the power of Nenya would have dramatically weakened or disappeared with the destruction of the One Ring when he placed the destruction of DG after March 25th 3019... Unsure



Nonetheless, the Professor said it was so. From Appendix B:

Quote

After the fall of the Dark Tower and the passing of Sauron the Shadow was lifted from the hearts of all who opposed him, but fear and despair fell upon his servants and allies. Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself. Though grievous harm was done to the fair woods on the borders, the assaults were driven back; and when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.



Whatever spells she had, with Sauron gone Galadriel had enough power to bring down the walls of Dol Guldur. It's a pity that Tolkien didn't explain this more fully, but there's little that can be done about that now.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 4:10pm

Post #61 of 75 (837 views)
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Regarding Galadriel - Here's a thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is purely speculative, but perhaps Lady Galadriel, like the Ents, knew a way to awaken the trees of Mirkwood. Without the influence of Sauron, she could possibly use them to bring down Dol Guldur.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 18 2013, 4:50pm

Post #62 of 75 (823 views)
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Keeping it in the family [In reply to] Can't Post

 I was merely questioning whether her "magics" would have been strong enough to do the job, and observing that perhaps Tolkien had meant for her to use the power of the Ring....


But, I've just remembered....Galadriel's brother Finrod was also apparently blessed with the magic of Elvenesse and was able to cast a spell of illusion to disguise his company as Orcs, and also hold his own for a while against Sauron in a battle of Song in Tol-in-Gaurhoth. So perhaps it does run in the family!



http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Finrod

Quote



They took their gear and weapons and by the magic of Finrod their own forms
and faces were changed to the likeness of Orcs. Thus disguised they came far
upon their northward road between Ered Wethrin and the highlands of
Taur-nu-Fuin. However the twelve were captured and imprisoned by Sauron on
Tol-in-Gaurhoth ("Isle of Werewolves"). Thus befell the contest of Finrod and
Sauron. Finrod strove with Sauron in songs of power, and the power of the Elven
King was very great but in the end Sauron had the mastery.



"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 4:54pm

Post #63 of 75 (816 views)
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With all due respect to Middle Earth singers [In reply to] Can't Post

if we are to be subjected to another out of tune wailing like Eowyn's lament for Theoden I'd rather have no Nuclear Boo Song. Thorin and dwarves singing was lovely but that's one win vs two duds (Eowyn and Aragorn).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 18 2013, 5:11pm

Post #64 of 75 (825 views)
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Galadriel was greater than her brother [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien unequivocally stated in The Shibboleth of Feanor that Galadriel and Feanor were the "greatest of the Noldor," (and the greatest of the Eldar of Valinor) and that together with Luthien, "greatest of all of the Eldar" they were "the chief matter of all of the legends and histories of the Elves." I do not find it all remarkable or inconsistent that he reports that it was Galadriel who threw down the walls of Dol Guldur.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 5:34pm

Post #65 of 75 (810 views)
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I don't think that throwing the walls down is an issue here [In reply to] Can't Post

It's about saving Gandalf as if he doesn't have enough power to save himself or something.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 18 2013, 6:24pm

Post #66 of 75 (808 views)
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"...ever they strive now in thought..." [In reply to] Can't Post

'There lies the fastness of Southern Mirkwood,' said Haldir. `It is clad in a forest of dark fir, where the trees strive one against another and their branches rot and wither. In the midst upon a stony height stands Dol Guldur, where long the hidden Enemy had his dwelling. We fear that now it is inhabited again, and with power sevenfold. A black cloud lies often over it of late. In this high place you may see the two powers that are opposed one to another; and ever they strive now in thought, but whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered. Not yet.'
-FOTR, Book II, Chapter 6, Lothlórien

******************************************
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Sometime hours and hours hence:
In The Green Dragon two ales could buy
And drank the one less filling I
And that has made all the difference.
- The Ale Less Filling, by Robert Frostymug

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Sep 18 2013, 6:26pm)


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 18 2013, 7:01pm

Post #67 of 75 (779 views)
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Fine - and I already stated previously that Feanor was her equal... [In reply to] Can't Post

but what exactly does "Greatest" mean? It is extremely vague... Feanor was physically strong, and strong in spirit, but Tolkien never mentioned him using "powers" as such, other than however it was that he made the Silmarils.

But at least with Finrod Tolkien does attribute the "magic and might of Elvenesse" that the Calaquendi apparently inherited from their sojourn in Valinor, so logically those talents are equally attributable to Galadriel and Feanor


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Bombadil
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 7:14pm

Post #68 of 75 (781 views)
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BINGO!WHOA!.. Bomby sorta dreamed somethinglike...that last Night? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hurons aren't just in Fangorn are they?

Radagast w/ Galadieil.......WAKES UP MIRKWOOD

& Takes back!
What was once
wazz...... theirs

Transforms it
BACKthereAgain?

into "The Greenwood the Great"
Right Before our Eyes!

Yippie
Mystery wrappin in an engima dreamThinkin'...solved..sorta

Bomby
will sleep well tonight
even if his Fantasy
is Never shown
on screen,
in 3D..

(Goldlberry inspired this thinkin' from Valinor)...... She can't wait to meet all of you.. someDay!


Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 18 2013, 8:00pm

Post #69 of 75 (772 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh dear, now I have this picture in my mind of Galadriel running amuck in a big yellow JCB ..


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 18 2013, 9:36pm

Post #70 of 75 (751 views)
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I know, lovely isn't it!! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Elthir
Gondor

Sep 19 2013, 12:36pm

Post #71 of 75 (730 views)
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So actually... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I can blame Jackson then? I will blame him ethereally then, meaning I will blame him slowly Wink

And as far as Jackson's reasoning, well I'm not surprised he had his own reasons.


Old Pilgrim
Rivendell


Sep 19 2013, 2:59pm

Post #72 of 75 (724 views)
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In fact she was very affected [In reply to] Can't Post

when she learned of Gandalf's fate. Just take a look at her facial expression when she is talking about him and when Legolas said that he was taken by Balrog of Morgoth. She seems shocked and since we cannot see in her head we cannot know what else she is thinking afterwards. I am sure that their friendship continues in the LOTR movies but wasn't show because they were on separate places and the only moment they were in contact (once she saved him from Durin's tower) wasn't in the movie. The last scene in Grey Havens where they are both together is too short to analyze their relation.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 19 2013, 9:01pm

Post #73 of 75 (698 views)
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Yet neither could she see Sauron when he was concealing himself in Dol Guldur. [In reply to] Can't Post

He lived practically next door for more than two thousand years. She knew there was a darkness there, but it was beyond her to identify it, and the matter was not resolved until Gandalf's second venture into Dol Guldur centruies after his first one and centuries after The Watchful Peace ended. She also did not know of the war he meant to unleash upon The Elves, nor the method's he would choose. Gandalf discovered his identity and that he was marshalling for a war on Lothlorien and Rivendell.

Neither could she identify the Demon that dwelt in Moria. This is not to cast aspersion on her. She was great, and certainly could perform acts of magic. But she was not an omniscient contender to Sauron. Gandalf would later sit in her high place in Lothlorien, and strive with The Shadow until it passed and overlooked Frodo.

In Reply To
'There lies the fastness of Southern Mirkwood,' said Haldir. `It is clad in a forest of dark fir, where the trees strive one against another and their branches rot and wither. In the midst upon a stony height stands Dol Guldur, where long the hidden Enemy had his dwelling. We fear that now it is inhabited again, and with power sevenfold. A black cloud lies often over it of late. In this high place you may see the two powers that are opposed one to another; and ever they strive now in thought, but whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered. Not yet.'
-FOTR, Book II, Chapter 6, Lothlórien


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 19 2013, 9:02pm

Post #74 of 75 (707 views)
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Agreed, and in the extended (the only one of the Extendeds so excellent that it SHOULD have all been in the theatrical) [In reply to] Can't Post

she defends his actions as in the book. "Needless were none of the deeds of Gandalf... we do not know his full purpose."

In Reply To
when she learned of Gandalf's fate. Just take a look at her facial expression when she is talking about him and when Legolas said that he was taken by Balrog of Morgoth. She seems shocked and since we cannot see in her head we cannot know what else she is thinking afterwards. I am sure that their friendship continues in the LOTR movies but wasn't show because they were on separate places and the only moment they were in contact (once she saved him from Durin's tower) wasn't in the movie. The last scene in Grey Havens where they are both together is too short to analyze their relation.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Girdle of Melian
Lorien

Sep 20 2013, 9:06am

Post #75 of 75 (680 views)
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I Have A Feeling... [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on her "sudden" disappearance when she was talking to Gandalf in the first film, that we shall Galadriel's athletic (which translates to fighting in the movie). Because she is Galadriel, whether one agrees with it or not, her feats should be considerably be more powerful than what Arwen, Elrond or Legolas has been shown to do -- otherwise -- most movie goers will not see the logic as to why she was even glorified in the movie as some sort of sacred object.

Also, as the far as the books are concerned, she's been referred to as an exceptional athlete and is one of the greatest of the Noldors that belongs to the same level as Luthien, Finrod, Feanor, etc., not to mention she also learned from Melian, has a ring of power in her hand, and an army of Elves under her command.

I can see her saving Gandalf because even though Gandalf can do what she may be able to do; he does not have an army (normally), and to cast a spell while being attacked at the same time. Her magic showing maybe her ability to manipulate the elements (wood, water, earth, etc.) and her fighting prowess, if Boyen's is accurate in her description that she is the most powerful being in ME during the Hobbit, will probably sleek like an Elf Ninja that. So yes, I think we shall all see all sides of Galadriel (warrior, sorceress, enchantress and possibly telepath and mind reader...

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