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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The explanation of the eagles is in!
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Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 14 2013, 7:11am

Post #26 of 45 (335 views)
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I don't know about any Maori name meanings [In reply to] Can't Post

but "Manu" is a very common short form of "Emmanuel" in /French speaking countries...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Nunilo
Bree


Sep 14 2013, 8:31am

Post #27 of 45 (338 views)
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Hehe, that was FILI! [In reply to] Can't Post

But Kili did then gleefully respond with the equally obvious "There's another way in!" Tongue


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Sep 14 2013, 10:25am

Post #28 of 45 (328 views)
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I've never understood why those quotes are so funny...? [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili isn't asking "but since there is a key, is there a door too?"
What he actually means is "explain where this new/hidden door is" but in a different way...
I think it's quite obvious that he understands there is a door, he just want the full story as too where it is and if it's dangerous and so on...

And as to "A diversion" and "There's another way in"...
They are not stupid, they are just stating facts, a summary :)
Many people talk like this in real life (me included) and it's not more stupid than checking twice if you have turned off the oven or something...
Just making sure Wink

Vocalist in the progressive metal band 5 Minutes Late
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 14 2013, 10:32am

Post #29 of 45 (313 views)
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Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

You just expressed exactly how I feel about both those quotes.
I have never understood the fuss over them either.

Oh, and I like to check the oven too...


Nunilo
Bree


Sep 14 2013, 11:31am

Post #30 of 45 (304 views)
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Don't worry, I'm not being serious :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I definitely talk like this in real life as well (and sometimes I check things more than twice...) I'm certainly not suggesting such dialogue is stupid, and I think it's necessary sometimes to reinforce things for the audience. I just find it amusing when Kili looks so eager as he says, "There's another way in!" while clapping his brother on the back. His youthful exuberance stands out amongst the other more solemn dwarves (who I'm sure are equally excited to find another way in, and are just a bit more subtle about it). I can see why these 'stating the obvious' lines are included. Just some gentle teasing. Cool


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Sep 14 2013, 12:14pm

Post #31 of 45 (293 views)
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You may be joking, [In reply to] Can't Post

but I know so many people that actaully think those dialog-thing are stupid and that the movie would be better without...
I don't get how anyone can interpret it that way...
Well well Smile

Vocalist in the progressive metal band 5 Minutes Late
and the progressive doom rock band Mater Thallium


Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Sep 14 2013, 2:17pm

Post #32 of 45 (275 views)
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Clerks 2 scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I gotta admit I thught that the Star Wars VS Lord Of The Rings scene in Clerks 2 was pretty funny seeing as how I am a huge fan of both franchises, He did take it too far though lol. the reenactment of the films was funny though


The Grey Wanderer
Lorien


Sep 14 2013, 3:12pm

Post #33 of 45 (254 views)
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A good explanation would be nice [In reply to] Can't Post

Though Gandalf's line may just be a snappy come-back to some insensitive Dwarven grumble. The fear of men with arrows may not be so much due to flying high over them, but running into them when they land [there were men in the area Hobbit: "live in among the more pleasant woods...and along the river shores...many of them...well armed...", this from the explanation as to why the goblins were meeting the wargs]. Add that to the lack of incentive to help the Dwarves [Hobbit: "eagles are not kindly birds"] and that the mountain is 5 times as far to carry the heavy Dwarves as they did in the book and it is a wonder they bothered to take them anywhere once the eagles had finished having fun stealing the goblin's prey. The book implies the only reason they bothered to take them as far as they did was because Gandalf had done them a service in the past.
Now, since the Movie skipped the whole visit to the eyrie where such discussions could take place, it is likely that we can assume the eagles just set them down on the nearest safe place away from the goblins that the eagles could land at. And, as I think about it, that is reason enough for the movie version - since the eagles were never shown talking there is no way for the Dwarves to negotiate a deal to carry them the rest of the way.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Sep 14 2013, 3:32pm

Post #34 of 45 (248 views)
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actually [In reply to] Can't Post

Despite not being shown in most of the maps, the woodsmen DO live in the Anduin valley.

It is also pointed out in a few of the maps in The Atlas of Middle-earth, as well as the map at the end of The Hobbit book, that the woodsmen occupy the western eaves of Mirkwood toward the south (and one can suspect that, given their proximity to Dol Guldur, that they may have moved north but to the western side of the Anduin from Beorn when Sauron was present to get away from the "necromancer" they feared, while also avoiding Beorn).

And though it is far north of the Carrock, Framsburg (where the Rohirrim came south from) is between the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood, and I don't remember for certain if it was wholly abandoned when the Rohirrim settled Rohan, but it does stand a chance at having had some people stay, thus creating another settlement of Men between the Misty Mountains and the Lonely Mountain.

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 14 2013, 5:28pm

Post #35 of 45 (234 views)
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but in the film... [In reply to] Can't Post

how would the eagles know of their quest?? they were simply taking them away from certain death.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 14 2013, 8:59pm

Post #36 of 45 (204 views)
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Presumably... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
how would the eagles know of their quest?? they were simply taking them away from certain death.



If Gandalf can make himself understood to a moth, surely he could do the same with the Great Eagles, whether they can use Mannish speech or not. Part of the problem is that the film doesn't present an accurate sense of the true distance still to go (over 200 miles just to get across Mirkwood Forest).

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 14 2013, 10:05pm

Post #37 of 45 (189 views)
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but why? [In reply to] Can't Post

why would Gandalf request such a task from the eagles? they swooped in (no pun intended) rescued them and dropped them off at a safe spot.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 14 2013, 10:12pm

Post #38 of 45 (190 views)
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Gandalf probably wouldn't ask... [In reply to] Can't Post

...at least, not for himself. However, he might make the request on Thorin's behalf, or he might just be explaining the Eagles' position to the company.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Lio
Lorien


Sep 14 2013, 11:06pm

Post #39 of 45 (179 views)
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Eagles on demand [In reply to] Can't Post

The movie portrayal does complicate things a bit, not quite making clear the eagles' nature and kind of making it look like they're "on call" whenever (will the moth be associated with the eagles again during their arrival at the Bo5A?). Even so, it's clear, I think, that they are not tame beasts. Plus there's a big difference between saving someone's life and carrying them around anywhere as a convenience. So I'm still not so sure whether an explanation is "required" although perhaps they might want to tie it in somehow when the eagles appear again near the end.

Actually, what I would really like to know is

Why don't they take the bunny sled to Erebor?!

(Or Mordor, for that matter?) Wink

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 15 2013, 1:23am

Post #40 of 45 (174 views)
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I assure you the moth will be at BOFA [In reply to] Can't Post

The moth is three for three so far, so I doubt BOFA will be the odd one out.

As for the bunny sled. Haha! Good one! I'd like to see all thirteen dwarves trying to get on that thing. Maybe some of them could actually ride the rabbits!

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because Im afraid, and he gives me courage. - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Sep 15 2013, 1:23am)


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Sep 15 2013, 4:03am

Post #41 of 45 (156 views)
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now, if there were beagles instead of bunnies [In reply to] Can't Post

Wishbone would be the lead beagle.....

Maybe the dwarves could ride them? Less motion sickness than bunnies Tongue not as much hopping up and down.....

feeling silly right now for some reason.... Smile

Plus, since I heard about Ian McKellen's comment about how the "beagles will take you no further" spurring two hours of beagle jokes among the cast, I couldn't resist Wink

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 15 2013, 10:53am

Post #42 of 45 (133 views)
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This line is said in surprise, because fortresses don't tend to have doors [In reply to] Can't Post

Fortresses usually have a single main gate which, funnily enough, isn't opened by a key. So when they see a key to Erebor Fili is surprised, as anyone would be, that a fortress would have a door. There's nothing really "obvious" about it.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Sep 15 2013, 10:54am)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 15 2013, 10:59am

Post #43 of 45 (143 views)
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I think it's necessary, a friend of mine doesn't want to see DoS because of the eagles. [In reply to] Can't Post

He said he's not interested in a film where no-one seems to be in any real peril and the few times they actually are in danger they get saved by lazy eagles. Laugh


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Sep 15 2013, 7:22pm

Post #44 of 45 (101 views)
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Oh, I do get it... [In reply to] Can't Post

but it gave me a chuckle at first viewing. The line isn't 'wrong'. 'silly', or 'stupid', but it is mildly funny. To me at least.


gliido
Bree

Oct 7 2013, 8:52pm

Post #45 of 45 (62 views)
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Prediction: It'll be a joke, not an explanation [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not going to get my hopes up about an actual explanation of the eagles being in the film. Honestly, I see this line of dialogue being used as a joke for the audience. By that I mean I wouldn't put it past PJ for this line of dialogue being at the BEGINNING of a scene, as if we (the audience) JUST missed, by mere seconds, Gandalf's explanation about the eagles to Bilbo and the dwarves.

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