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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Certainly Gandalf needs to display power-magic in Dol Guldur. But how? Let the books be your guide, filmcrew!
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Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 14 2013, 12:35am

Post #26 of 31 (92 views)
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Hopefully not... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Galadriel is almost certainly going to overshadow him in the final battle


It's obvious that Jackson likes to downplay Gandalf's power for some reason. To some extent it's acceptable in my eyes, because Tolkien wrote that at first glance, Gandalf seemed to be the least of all the Wizards (but held the greatest inherent power, save possibly Saruman before his fall) - Gandalf truly was a master of humility, and only a select few were aware of just how powerful he was. But I think Jackson takes it too far on an occasion or two. The Witch-king confrontation was a joke, thankfully it was just a short scene. The WC scene did make him look a tad weak, but all-in-all I didn't think it was close to as bad as the Witch-king scene.

However, if Gandalf, Radagast, and (if he's involved) Saruman end up looking like amateurs next to Galadriel's extreme battle prowess, then I'll be miffed. Fine, let her throw down the walls when the Council's done routing the Necromancer, but she should not be numero uno as far as the battle itself. There will likely be 3 Maiar present in this battle (4 if counting Sauron), so Galadriel being the standout would be inappropriate IMO.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Sep 14 2013, 12:39am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 14 2013, 3:10am

Post #27 of 31 (81 views)
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Guard your heart, Salmacis. I hope as you do, but [In reply to] Can't Post

if hope fails, don't be surprised, darling. Unimpressed

In Reply To

Quote
Galadriel is almost certainly going to overshadow him in the final battle


It's obvious that Jackson likes to downplay Gandalf's power for some reason. To some extent it's acceptable in my eyes, because Tolkien wrote that at first glance, Gandalf seemed to be the least of all the Wizards (but held the greatest inherent power, save possibly Saruman before his fall) - Gandalf truly was a master of humility, and only a select few were aware of just how powerful he was. But I think Jackson takes it too far on an occasion or two. The Witch-king confrontation was a joke, thankfully it was just a short scene. The WC scene did make him look a tad weak, but all-in-all I didn't think it was close to as bad as the Witch-king scene.

However, if Gandalf, Radagast, and (if he's involved) Saruman end up looking like amateurs next to Galadriel's extreme battle prowess, then I'll be miffed. Fine, let her throw down the walls when the Council's done routing the Necromancer, but she should not be numero uno as far as the battle itself. There will likely be 3 Maiar present in this battle (4 if counting Sauron), so Galadriel being the standout would be inappropriate IMO.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Sep 14 2013, 3:01pm

Post #28 of 31 (70 views)
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maiar vs istari [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't a Maia actually one order ABOVE Istari?

Gandalf and the wizards are Istari, which I thought to be a different, one level less than Maiar form of the order of the Ainur.

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 14 2013, 9:05pm

Post #29 of 31 (55 views)
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The Istari are Maia [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Isn't a Maia actually one order ABOVE Istari?

Gandalf and the wizards are Istari, which I thought to be a different, one level less than Maiar form of the order of the Ainur.



The Istari are just a specific group of Maia. However, since they are embodied in the form of Men, with limitations imposed upon their power, you could say that they are lessened.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 15 2013, 3:09am

Post #30 of 31 (47 views)
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What Otaku said... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Istari" is simply a name for the 5 Maiar who were sent to Middle-earth in the 3rd Age to aid men and elves in defeating Sauron.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 15 2013, 5:28pm

Post #31 of 31 (59 views)
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Otaku and Salmacis have nailed it. To give greater specifity, Olorin and Curumo were the highest of the Maiar who were sent and became known as [In reply to] Can't Post

The Istari. Istari is an Elven word meaning wizard, and it was used in The Third Age in refference to The Istari, the Order of Wizards of clandestine origin who came to aid in the battle against Sauron The Maia. Those Istari-Wizards were themselve Maia in assumed, diminished forms. "Olorin I was in my youth, in The West that is forgotten," Gandalf tells Faramir, when questioned about his many names. "Wisest of The Maiar was Olorin. He too dwelt in the gardens of Lorien, but his ways took him often to Nienna and of her he learned Pity and Patience. . . in later days he was a friend to all the Children of Illuvatar and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginings of Darkness."

Curumo The Maiar, who like Sauron was mighty amongst the Ainur most attuned to the Vala Aule, came into Middle-Earth in The Third Age as Saruman The White.

The Blue Wizards and The Brown Wizard were Maiar Ainur associated with the Valar Ainur Orome` (Alatar), Mandos (Pallando), and Yavanna (Aweindil/Radagast) respectively.

In Reply To
Isn't a Maia actually one order ABOVE Istari?

Gandalf and the wizards are Istari, which I thought to be a different, one level less than Maiar form of the order of the Ainur.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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