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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
UK movie review of Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug Anual
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MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 8 2013, 8:31pm

Post #26 of 46 (588 views)
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he's in both upcoming films... [In reply to] Can't Post

CONAN STEVENS

Filmography
Jump to: Actor | Writer | Thanks
Hide Actor (22 titles)
2014 Extinction (pre-production)
Apocalypse (rumored)

2014 The Hobbit: There and Back Again (post-production)
Bolg

2013 A Man Will Rise (post-production)

2013 The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (post-production)
Bolg


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Remus
Lorien

Sep 8 2013, 8:31pm

Post #27 of 46 (555 views)
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No mention of the Necromancer?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am really worried now that there is no image of the Necromancer or mentioning of him when Gandalf and Radagast enters Dol Guldur. And not Battle of Dol Guldur either where we have heard A LOT of rumours it will be in THIS MOVIE. And it will most likely be a HUGE part of the film. Taking up at least 10-15 minutes at least.


Benedict is credited as Smaug and the Necromancer so if we don't see the Necromancer in this and he doesn't talk i am so afraid it will be such a HUGE let down that i will think this movie will suck and i will be blinded for everything else that happens in the movie. Epic or otherwise...

ShockedUnimpressed


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 8 2013, 8:33pm

Post #28 of 46 (550 views)
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don't hinge everything on this reviewer... [In reply to] Can't Post

this is one reviewer who is putting out what he liked about the film, just because he doesn't mention Bolg or the necromancer doesn't mean their not in the film.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Sep 8 2013, 8:33pm)


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 8 2013, 8:37pm

Post #29 of 46 (521 views)
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I know that [In reply to] Can't Post

But in reply to that poster, you asked "So they're saying he's a ghost?" And I said that nothing of the sort was mentioned in the article.


Remus
Lorien

Sep 8 2013, 8:45pm

Post #30 of 46 (514 views)
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Sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

Alright. I will try to keep my hopes up. But i don't like this at all. And i have no problem at all if Gandalf can do "mirrors" of himself and fight with his clones for a period of time. He is a powerful Istari (Wizard) for god's sake.


I will at least wait till i see it in the theater before i judge it. See how they handle it.


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Sep 8 2013, 8:53pm

Post #31 of 46 (535 views)
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He is mentioned [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"Lastly we know that it is Beorn that confirms to, and convinces Gandalf that Dol Guldur is the home of 'a great evil'


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 8 2013, 9:00pm

Post #32 of 46 (515 views)
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What is it that you are so worried about? [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether it's in this movie or the last one, the Necromancer will probably be shown in some capacity. But I wouldn't expect much of the Necromancer, maybe a shadow or wraith of some sort. Remember, he couldn't even take a physical form in the LotR movie trilogy, so I doubt we'll be seeing him in "Dark Lord" form like in the FotR prologue.


Remus
Lorien

Sep 8 2013, 9:53pm

Post #33 of 46 (487 views)
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Reply to both Lieutenant and Salmacis [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know how to reply to more than 1 in the same message but nvm... Nice name and nice avatar.


I am worried that we wont be seeing the Necromancer in this movie. That's all. I have always liked the villains in games/movies and the Necromancer being you know, one of the most badass villains out there i love to see him more. And you are probably right, he will surely just be that black ghastly wraith with benedicts cheekbones (like a zombie) and summon like a black mace/sword to do battle with Gandalf & CO. And cast some spells.

Having seen Star Trek into Darkness and listening to Benedicts voice both in that awesome trailer and in the movie i am 100% sure he will be awesome as Smaug and the Necromancer. That voice is pure art and magic. It's truly awesome. PJ can't fail. Ever. Another masterfully casting! Heart


Off topic: Benedicts voice in that Into Darkness trailer was so AWESOME that me, not being a fan of Star Trek, watched the first movie and then so i just could watch Into Darkness to see this villain. That's just how awesome Benedicts voice is.

True story.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Sep 8 2013, 9:57pm

Post #34 of 46 (479 views)
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actually [In reply to] Can't Post

Its really fascinating and intriguing that there are so many open questions and
worries concerning the DG-plot and nothing is clear so far...the high Fells,thrain,how many visits,another council meeting,when the assault takes place and so on.

To me its always quite boring to know exactly whats coming up next and this subplot will be the big riddle till the very last moment


(This post was edited by NoelGallagher on Sep 8 2013, 10:00pm)


Remus
Lorien

Sep 8 2013, 10:15pm

Post #35 of 46 (453 views)
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That's so true [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with everything you say. I was at first like "okey, i will read NOTHING about DoS, keeping everything as a surprise" but no no... I am just too curious... Damnit... I will regret this tomorrow i know these things from this thread... Damnit...


I will try to stay away now from now on. I have succesfully though been able to not see those Beorn pictures... yet... But as a Swede i am really proud of Mikael Persbrandt being Beorn. Really cool. I wonder how PJ saw him & choosed him. Like i said before, PJ can't make mistakes. MP as Gunvald in the Beck movies, he is really ferocious and angry. And i think that will fit Beorn just like a hand in a glove.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 8 2013, 10:19pm

Post #36 of 46 (550 views)
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Given that this is a spoiler article... [In reply to] Can't Post

and not a plot synopsis of the film, I don't think we need to worry about things that aren't mentioned. Remember that cast and crew are under a non-disclosure agreement, so either these bits are what they are willing to let out as part of their publicity campagin (most likely), or based on hints (which can be misinterpreted). Either way, it's not the full story and there's no need to worry about omissions. Bilbo, Thorin, Galadriel, Smaug, the Master of Laketown, Alfrid and plenty of others aren't mentioned in the article either, but I'm quite sure they haven't been cut. Absence from the article does not mean absence from the film.

I'm quite interested in the idea that Thranduil holds the dwarves until they agree to give him a cut of the treasure. Not only does this set up his motivation for joining the men of Laketown in the siege of the Lonely Mountain later, but it gives them an opportunity to delve into Elf/Dwarf history a bit more (will we get into Thranduil's preferences for white jewels and will this tie into the Arkenstone plotline at all, I wonder?). Even though that will probably work well for setting up motivations, it probably means that we will lose the Elven feasting in the woodland and the company's attempt to enter the circle of firelight in favor of a running fight with spiders which ends in capture by Elves. It's been hinted at before, but this makes me sad, as that scene of glimpsing the Elves feasting and of chasing the firelight and it vanishing as soon as they get near is one of the most overt inclusions of "faerie" in the book and I've always loved it. Frown

The statement that Azog has been killing off the Beornings (for what reason, I wonder?) does make sense of the torture scene we have heard about. But it shifts Beorn's enmity from wargs and goblins to a specific enemy. I expect they'll make that Beorn's reason for fighting in the Bof5A. Looks like there is going to be lots of foreshadowing and setting up of plot threads for the third film.

As for Gandalf's magic sleight-of-hand at Dol Guldur...I'm taking this description with a bit of salt, as this sounds like the sort of thing that causes a lot of panicked speculation as people try to imagine it but isn't always bad in the execution. So far, I've liked the way they have portrayed Gandalf's abilities. I wonder if part of this, especially the "more than one of him" is teamwork with Radagast, who is supposed to be a "master of shapes and changes of hue"? Or perhaps a legacy from Radagast, depending on how they have written his storyline and how long he's with us (I'm still really hoping he won't die, but we shall see).

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 8 2013, 10:41pm

Post #37 of 46 (512 views)
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I am inclined to disagree. . .perhaps strongly, depending. Blue flame and lightning from the hilltop against Ring Wraiths as the Fellowship Novel [In reply to] Can't Post

mentions is what I want.

I, like you, don't want the magic to be poorly handled or tacky. That said, there HAS to be magic on Gandalf's part. This is going to be the most dangerous situation he the Wizard encounters in the whole of his Third Age ambassador role, until he confronts one of Melkor/Morgoth's Balrog lieutenants.

And this is all or nothing. Sauron is preparing to launch a great war against The Elves, and if they are not clued in. . . Thus, Gandalf has to escape to tell them, from this his chief and true enemy, and Sauron will be desprate to keep him from escaping. In the current heart of Sauron's dominion, it would be UNACCEPTABLE if Gandalf were seen to escape by means that a Legolas, Aragorn or Thorin would have at their disposal. Weapons skill and a touch of psychic gift will not do. Gandalf has to be shown to put forth his power if Sauron's fortress is to be taken as a place of dreadful peril AND if Gandalf is to continue being taken seriously as a Power.

As to the dopplegangers. . . on the fence about that. There is precedent, however. You will recall in the greater Rings novel, Saruman does harass Legolas, Aragorn etc. with what turns out to be a mere phantasm of himself, so it is established that the Wizards have a power to project images of themselves. As with most effects, it does not HAVE to be cheap and gaudy. It all depends on how it is managed. You mentioned Harry Potter, and that series had examples of both phony, silly looking spell effects, and amazing, awe inspiring moments on par with high quality updates of moments from The Ten Commandments. The wizz-bang stupify spells and some of the transformations were a mess. . . however, the Dumbledore vs. Voldemort duel and the Fire Wave in film 6 were phenomenal, and Harry's dementor disbanding charm was more impressively handled, in execution, than the "flashlight" versus Nazgul moment.

In Reply To
Creating magical doppelgangers? Eh?

Worrying stuff. The portrayal of Gandalf's powers had been really well done by PJ up to now. Hope it is about to derail into Harry Potter territory..


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 8 2013, 11:09pm

Post #38 of 46 (477 views)
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In all honesty, while I certainly hope for elegant and awe inspiring magic and not [In reply to] Can't Post

a tacky mess, it would be a real stain and embarassment if the great Wizard Gandalf the Gray is portrayed as being nearly caught in a terrible pinch in Dol Guldur and doesn't put forth an impressive display of supernatural power to escape his plight. According to everything in the novels, he would and could put forth great power when required. Seldom will it be more required than in Dol Guldur. He is not a more sagacious version of Aragorn. He is a Wizard, and wields "MANY powers of mind and of hand."

In Reply To
All this ghost talk and magic tricks business i don't like... at all!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 8 2013, 11:21pm

Post #39 of 46 (463 views)
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even against the necromancer/sauron? [In reply to] Can't Post

what if Gandalf ends up fighting the necromancer? Perhaps Galdadriel's "breaking down the walls of Dol-Guldur" has side-effects which causes Gandalf to be injured??


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 9 2013, 5:47am

Post #40 of 46 (378 views)
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Lmao About the walls falling being THE problem for him. I hope not. lol. [In reply to] Can't Post

For one thing, I think they will be two distinct scenes. Gandalf is supposed to ( I know, the ACTUAL account is an afterthought these days, still) escape on his own power to WARN the council. He isn't rescued by them while investigating.

In an actual battle with Sauron it would be plausible to see his his Wizardly powers subdued, however, up until that point, against orcs and RingWraiths, it should be some of the most impressive offense and defense shown from him, and it has to eclipse anything that an Aragorn or a Legolas could manage.

In Reply To
what if Gandalf ends up fighting the necromancer? Perhaps Galdadriel's "breaking down the walls of Dol-Guldur" has side-effects which causes Gandalf to be injured??


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 9 2013, 6:02am

Post #41 of 46 (375 views)
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i don't think his "life threatening" injury will be due to [In reply to] Can't Post

investigating, i think it will happen towards the end of the battle. Gandalf might be fighting a combination of ring-wraiths and the necromancer and Galadriel does her "crazy green flash" like we saw her do in FOTR which causes the walls to collapse and also the wraiths to flee.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 9 2013, 6:09am

Post #42 of 46 (368 views)
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i just realized [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf did this in FOTR in Bilbo's house! remember when Gandalf was looking over the map of Erebor and Bilbo peaked in to see what Gandalf was doing than all of a sudden he was gone...than Gandalf appeared behind Bilbo.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Yngwulff
Gondor


Sep 9 2013, 7:30am

Post #43 of 46 (373 views)
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Gandalfs injury [In reply to] Can't Post

If he is hurt at Dol Guldur, then how does he make it to BO5A in seemingly good health as there is no mention of injury on his body until after the BO5A?

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 9 2013, 12:53pm

Post #44 of 46 (295 views)
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Lol. If Aragorn can be bashed nigh unto bits and ride to battle a few days later, Surely [In reply to] Can't Post

any one of The Wizards can do the same feat in half the time. lol

In Reply To
If he is hurt at Dol Guldur, then how does he make it to BO5A in seemingly good health as there is no mention of injury on his body until after the BO5A?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 9 2013, 1:05pm

Post #45 of 46 (299 views)
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According to the book, Gandalf was injured during the BoFA... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
what if Gandalf ends up fighting the necromancer? Perhaps Galdadriel's "breaking down the walls of Dol-Guldur" has side-effects which causes Gandalf to be injured??



If Gandalf is injured during the attack on Dol Guldur that will be an invention of the film. He was fine when Bilbo encountered him in the camp of the Men and Elves. The injury was sustained in the Battle of the Five Armies.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


malickfan
Gondor


Sep 9 2013, 6:18pm

Post #46 of 46 (244 views)
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Hmm...sounds interesting and very worrying in equal measure [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole Gandalf exlporing Dol Guldor doppleganger style sounds incredibly tacky IMO, straying into Dungeons and Dragons territory, and I'm not at all liking the implication of his magic being 'magical' like that.

I'm rather indifferent to the whole Azog/Beorn thing could be cool, and at least might Azog have a purpose beyong p*ssing of people like me. But I'm really more interested in how or if they will explain Beorn's powers (please god don't make it a curse by the necromancer Tolkien left mysteries deliberately) and the casting of a Swede in the part...(I always viewed Beorn as a northern european mountain man type guy).

At this point I'm almost past caring about the changes, it's pretty clear Jackson had no respect for or intention to make The Hobbit as the stand alone Children's story it is, many of these changes sound like good ideas for tying the Hobbit into the wider war of the ring he created in the films, but in my mind are straying too far from the concepts and style of Tolkien's writing than necessary.

Oh well, should be a fun flick that actually has enough content to justify it's bound to be lengthy runtime.

But I'm increasingily starting to think that the best thing to come out of these films by Jackson is his self impossed non existant chances of butchering I mean 'adapting' The Silmarillion.

I don't have much to say.


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