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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
AUJ Extended Edition: An Unexpected Intro?

Subaruman
Bree


Sep 3 2013, 11:19pm

Post #1 of 18 (1194 views)
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AUJ Extended Edition: An Unexpected Intro? Can't Post

As we’ve all seen, there’s been conflicting info regarding the additional material run time in the EE. From the run time listed on different retail sources, it looks like we can expect another 13 – 15 minutes of additional material, while PJ stated back in December that it would be around 25 minutes of additional footage.
A discrepancy of 10 minutes is huge. Either a major scene or multiple shorter scenes would need to be dropped. One possibility that could help bridge the 10-minute gap is that the intro gets reworked. My guess is that the intro scenes with Old Bilbo get dropped, or at least moved to TABA.
PJ used the Old Bilbo/Frodo sequence as bridge to help the theater audience (debatably) feel comfortable and familiar with The Hobbit movies after viewing the LotR trilogy. That bridge is no longer necessary with the fans who will be watching the 6 SEE films in sequence with AUJ as film 1.
The Old Bilbo scenes total 5 minutes (prior to, and following the prologue) and I can see them fitting in well as some of the final bridge material being added to the end of the TABA EE. All the conversation regarding Lobelia Sackville-Baggins will fit well since the audience will have just seen her trying to auction off Bilbo’s possessions, the imagery of Bilbo’s adventure items will fit well since it wraps up many of the situations we’ve seen him experience over the 3 Hobbit films, Bilbo’s party preparations will flow into the next movie, and the final dialogue fits perfectly to bridge TABA and FOTR:
Bilbo (AUJ): “You don’t want to be late. He doesn’t approve of being late.”
Frodo (FOTR): “You’re late!”So perhaps in the end we’ll get 20 minutes of additional material with only 15 more minutes of total run time.

"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956


morro91
Bree

Sep 3 2013, 11:44pm

Post #2 of 18 (601 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt there will be the deletion of any "theatrical material".

PJ originally said 20-25minutes, so thats anywhere from 7-12 minutes extra from the 13 we're getting.

Another thing to consider is that they may have put stuff originally intended for AUJ EE into DOS. For instance, a flashback to Old Took's party could be the "unexpected, but familiar" place DOS is going to start, or it could be say at Beorn's Hall in a scene where Bilbo asks Gandalf why he chose Bilbo in the first place.

Originally the Gollum/Deagol was meant for TTT EE, but got changed late to ROTK.

Alternatively, WB & PJ are being money hungry fools and plan 2 Extended editions.

But I am certain that nothing from the theatrical edition will be dropped, even to be moved to the third movie EE. Perhaps a little bit here and there will be changed because of new edits for the EE, but nothing major will be missing from EE. That doesn't make sense, perhaps for this "25th Anniversary", he'll play around with the films. But how do you go from Old Bilbo telling the prologue to the switch between Old Bilbo/Young Bilbo without Old Bilbo sitting on the chair.

Interesting anyways.


Subaruman
Bree


Sep 4 2013, 12:49am

Post #3 of 18 (500 views)
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I agree with your logic [In reply to] Can't Post

and honestly think it's a lot more plausible than my theory, but it's still fun to speculate. The scene in TTT where the Gollum back-story was meant to go still is hard to watch sometimes because it would be such perfect placement. I suppose if Old Took's party sequence moved from AUJ EE to one of the other films it would be the same feeling, as I can't think of a better spot for it than when the embers rise from Bag End's chimney while Bilbo falls asleep.

"But how do you go from Old Bilbo telling the prologue to the switch between Old Bilbo/Young Bilbo without Old Bilbo sitting on the chair."

You go from the prologue to young Bilbo sitting on the front bench. No need for anything fancy. At least in that scenario you're not jumping around with the need to explain 60-year time traveling (going from the fall of Erebor, to the time of LotR, then to the time of TH in the first 20 minutes of the film comes off a bit jarring in my opinion).

"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 1:10am

Post #4 of 18 (470 views)
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I like the idea Subaruman [In reply to] Can't Post

Having all that said about "still stinks of troll", and "Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, dreadful woman; I caught here running off with my silverware once." would be great at the end of the trilogy. Not sure it would happen but you never know. I have my own dreams about things they could change in the EE...but they are really far fetched. I know most of it'll never happen but like you said, it is fun to speculate!

I also really like the idea of having the Old Took party while Bilbo is sleeping. I think that is or was the plan now that you say it, because it does seem like something's missing between the misty mountains scene and the part where he wakes up.

Btw, where was Gollum's backstory originally going to be told? I'm very curious about that because I personally don't like that scene in the beginning of ROTK. It seems very out of place, but then again, I dislike that scene altogether (its just my opinion, but that is my least favorite scene in the trilogy for many reasons).

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


Faleel
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 1:20am

Post #5 of 18 (475 views)
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Originally [In reply to] Can't Post

It would have been in the dead marshes:

"My name... my name...Smeeeaagol...."

cut to worm.


moreorless
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 5:12am

Post #6 of 18 (434 views)
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I think the setup is pretty clear.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you can see Gollum's wide eyed stare was originally meant to lead into something else. A good choice to remove it though as I think it makes it easier for the audience to buy into Sméagol truly having turned over a new leaf. Meanwhile ROTK benefits from showing just how deeply he's obcessed with the Ring.

Personally I don't think slimming down the EE is necessarily a bad thing, while TTT and ROTK had some excellent new material I think they also had some material that would have been better left on the cutting room floor.


TheHutt
Gondor


Sep 4 2013, 9:32am

Post #7 of 18 (357 views)
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Also, about the intro... [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you think the title "An Unexpected Journey" will appear at the same location as in the theatrical version?

In both FOTR and TTT, the title appeared at a different place than the theatrical version;
In ROTK the title appeared at the same place as in the theatrical version.

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


Shagrat
Gondor

Sep 4 2013, 10:35am

Post #8 of 18 (325 views)
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I think it will stay the same [In reply to] Can't Post

Can't see where else they could put it.


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 10:53am

Post #9 of 18 (318 views)
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First [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought they would change it, as PJ liked the idea of changing the scene they showed it... though they broke this already with the RotK EE.


Plus, it would destroy the great timing of Bilbo's quote of nothing unexpected ever happening and the "unexpected" title.

I would like that moment to stay in both cuts.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 5:39pm

Post #10 of 18 (217 views)
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I agree with this^ // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 5:39pm

Post #11 of 18 (218 views)
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I hope they don't change it. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 7:19pm

Post #12 of 18 (217 views)
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Doubt it, but I agree with you 100% [In reply to] Can't Post

The old Bilbo scenes should really have been the LAST not first scenes of the trilogy. Frodo running off to meet Gandalf would be a perfect time to fade to credits, leaving us hungry to watch FotR.

If they remove the scenes I'd be VERY surprised, but a part of me would be very happy as well.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 4 2013, 8:11pm

Post #13 of 18 (196 views)
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Couldn't agree more... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen a fan edit where, apart from old Bilbo going through the chest, etc., and starting to write his book, it goes straight into the Good Morning sequence. Just seeing old Bilbo in that short opening sequence then dissolving into MF is enough to show the movies are a flashback. Having a similar dissolve at the end of TABA into the Frodo sequence on the day of the 111th birthday party would just confirm the placement of TH before LotR perfectly.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 11:41pm

Post #14 of 18 (168 views)
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Slightly less related, I hope they don't put Gollum remembering his name in the EE [In reply to] Can't Post

They cut a bit where Gollum remembers his name while playing the riddle game. And they might decide to put it back, just cause.


morro91
Bree

Sep 5 2013, 6:30am

Post #15 of 18 (136 views)
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How do you know this? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where does this come from?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 5 2013, 3:07pm

Post #16 of 18 (114 views)
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Can't remember now, I'm sure others know... [In reply to] Can't Post

But there were two interviews, one where they mentioned Gollum remembering his name and one where they mentioned removing it.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Sep 5 2013, 3:09pm)


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 5 2013, 4:53pm

Post #17 of 18 (96 views)
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I missed the interviews, but I remember [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember that at Cinema-con (the 10 minutes montage that Quickbeam saw) reports were saying that Gollum says, "My name is Sméagol!" to Bilbo. Bilbo responds with, "Sméagol? Is that your name?"

I was also just thinking about the possibility of them adding it back in QT, but if you're saying that they purposely removed it to stay in line with LOTR, then I doubt they'd add it back in for the EE. That would be pretty dumb considering the people who order the extended versions are usually the more hardcore fans and thus the most nitpicky audience out there Laugh (I for one consider myself to be both diehard and nitpicky).

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 5 2013, 5:34pm

Post #18 of 18 (118 views)
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Ah, that's right! It wasn't an interview! [In reply to] Can't Post

Good memory! I think the second one was one of the many Comic Con interviews where PB said that someone noticed the Smeagol moment wouldn't work so they removed it.

I'm sure they won't put it back, because it doesn't really work. But the fear is that they might do it just for the sake of extending the best scene in the movie.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Sep 5 2013, 5:36pm)

 
 

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