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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Concerning Kili and Tauriel...
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Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 7:50pm

Post #26 of 50 (362 views)
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Tauriel sounds like Itaril description [In reply to] Can't Post

minus really Mary Sue-ish teenage aspect. I was a huge Itaril hater because the idea to have a teen Chief of King's Guard was so stupid I couldn't believe they were actually going with it. I also just hated that name, period. Itaril rhyms with drill and shrill. Yes, that annoying. So once they announced Evie and name change I was OK with the character. Tauriel saved us from Itaril. We dodged the bullet thanks to her.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



marillaraina
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 8:08pm

Post #27 of 50 (349 views)
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Rieli? OK! :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now all they need to do is find some quality screentime for Kili since he got ZERO in AUJ and there will be more characters in DOS who need introduction.


Yeah seriously. Dwalin, and Bofur had more lines among the 2nd line of dwarves(Thorin and Balin being the first), though I do think he managed to make the most of what little screen time he actually had. Besides the obvious one, his naivete, he's also brave, open to new things, protective and a a very good fighter who has the ability, if not always the experience, to think well on his feet when it comes to fighting.

But I do hope there is more quality and quantity in the next film. There's room for it in the sense of the aforementioned characteristics - because he does seem somewhat curious about the new cultures he's seeing, he does get injured(so a reason for him to interact with others in some way) so he can be a way to help introduce some of these new characters. Turner did mention in an interview Laketown would be important for his character, so assuming they don't cut it out, that may be where the quality screen time comes in.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Sep 2 2013, 8:09pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 8:14pm

Post #28 of 50 (356 views)
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Coinsidering what happens to him and how at the end [In reply to] Can't Post

They need to start developing his relationship with his uncle and brother pronto. Especially uncle. Those are such important 3 characters. Kili and Fili were marginalized in the book but movie simply can't afford to have their deaths without some good development that would give those deaths emotional impact.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 2 2013, 8:23pm

Post #29 of 50 (352 views)
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Can't believe I didn't see this before now... [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously Tauriel will heal Kili after she's finished healing the little girl (Bard's Tilda?) thus cementing their budding relationship!






In Reply To

But I do hope there is more quality and quantity in the next film. There's room for it in the sense of the aforementioned characteristics - because he does seem somewhat curious about the new cultures he's seeing, he does get injured(so a reason for him to interact with others in some way) so he can be a way to help introduce some of these new characters. Turner did mention in an interview Laketown would be important for his character, so assuming they don't cut it out, that may be where the quality screen time comes in.





"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 8:29pm

Post #30 of 50 (320 views)
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I'd like that [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 2 2013, 8:35pm

Post #31 of 50 (326 views)
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Yes, in actual fact, that would be much better.... [In reply to] Can't Post

than them to simply get the hots for each other whilst Kili's locked up in Mirkwood!

I could stomach Kili, having formerly antagonistic or suspicious of Elves like his uncle would have brought him up to be, being enlightened by the Elf's compassion for him and his injuries...that would be much more in the "spirit of Tolkien" Smile


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Sep 2 2013, 9:11pm

Post #32 of 50 (350 views)
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Rumors Rumors Rumors [In reply to] Can't Post

Remember all those rumors about Aragorn and Eowyn before TT premiered? I was frantic when I read all the stories about the "romance" between Eowyn and Aragorn. It turned out to be pretty much like the book with Aragorn acting more like a protector and older brother to Eowyn even though she refused to see that. But that wasn't what was being spun in internet rumor land. I was having heart palpitations until I saw the film. Perhaps all these rumors will be like that. It is also possible that the romantic thread will be Tauriel interested in Kili and that is why she helps them escape. You know, by giving BIlbo access to keys and whatnot.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 9:15pm

Post #33 of 50 (326 views)
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Oh Gosh not like Aragorn and Eowyn [In reply to] Can't Post

They so overstated Eowyn's pining for him. All those scenes with her puppy eyes longingly gazing in his direction. Please no!

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



marillaraina
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 9:46pm

Post #34 of 50 (303 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
They need to start developing his relationship with his uncle and brother pronto. Especially uncle. Those are such important 3 characters. Kili and Fili were marginalized in the book but movie simply can't afford to have their deaths without some good development that would give those deaths emotional impact.


They simply can't afford to skimp on the relationships between the Durins, yet I have to admit I have some fears in that regard, because they talked about fathers and sons being important in the next film and mention Thorin and freaking Thrain(seriously the guy's dead or at least hasn't been heard from in decades do we really need to go back and develop a relationship between them that could be spent on people in the present?) and Legolas and Thranduil(and tbh I assume also Bard and Bain) and all I could think was:

What about Kili and Fili?

Thorin for all intents and purposes is apparently the closest thing to a father they've had for most of their lives, they are his heirs. The whole first movie Kili was practically Thorin's shadow, always trying to be ready to be of service, looking half devastated when Thorin got angry about the orc jokes he and Fili were having, Thorin's good opinion is obviously very important to Kili(and thus also a reason for drama if he doesn't share Thorin's opinion of the elves, at least not all elves--he didn't share Thorin's opinion of Bilbo either so that's kind of foreshadowing).

The relationship between Thorin and his nephews is partly why they end up DEAD when they are barely out of the dwarf equivalent of their teenage years. It's so important they don't skimp on it.

And if Thranduil ends up being something of a father figure to Tauriel, rather than her unrequited love:), with Legolas as a sort of an older brother, rather than unrequited love interest:), then it would also be another thing Kili and Tauriel have in common, at least in terms of their being a certain amount of symmetry to their story arcs.

If anything with Kili and Tauriel goes this direction I have to say that PJ, PB and Co were not lazy and clearly gave it some real thought. It's really rather a nice artful inclusion the way the two characters could end up mirroring each other and reflecting some part of the larger storyline.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Sep 2 2013, 9:50pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 9:51pm

Post #35 of 50 (290 views)
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I really like your train of thought [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin as a father figure to Kili and Thranduil as a father figure to Tauriel as common trait that brings them to understanding each other and their races sounds much better than some clichéd "romantic love (aka cause they are hot!) made them change their view of the world". Plus that would allow for more interaction between Thorin and his heirs.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



marillaraina
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 11:08pm

Post #36 of 50 (276 views)
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::blushes:: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thorin as a father figure to Kili and Thranduil as a father figure to Tauriel as common trait that brings them to understanding each other and their races sounds much better than some clichéd "romantic love (aka cause they are hot!) made them change their view of the world". Plus that would allow for more interaction between Thorin and his heirs.



Thanks. I have a feeling I'm probably being too optimistic but as it is now, the story is set up to easily go in that direction. Whether it's the direction they chose is another thing all together. :)

I've always thought having significant interaction between Thorin and his heirs was very important, given what happens to them all. It would be a shame for Kili and Fili to die and have it be more like "ah well too bad" rather than "what terrible a waste of life and potential" which is actually something I think Tolkien, having experience WWI and lost so many young friends, would consider a worthy point to be made.

I'm not sure what initially made me think Thranduil might be more of a father figure for Tauriel, there was something in past spoilers, and reading about the bit in 2013 manual tith Legolas following her because he's protective didn't so much make me think "he LOVES her" as it made think of an older brother.

It's not hard to imagine Kili and Fili having a similar conversation, with Fili I imagine being more agreeable than Legolas initially seems to be, but still cautious and knowing it won't make Thorin and Thranduil, respectively, very happy.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 12:03am

Post #37 of 50 (269 views)
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Not at all: the value of such a rumor [In reply to] Can't Post

Eleniel, I've always been aware of Evangeline's Twitter comment. I based my opinion (no real Tauriel-Legolas "romance") on the fact that Peter Jackson himself long ago denied that there was such a romance, and that Evangeline's Twitter comment would be a natural publicity-generating response for all of Legolas' legions of fans. If there is no romance and Evangeline just said "No", then imagine the fan response (dashed hopes). But if she coyly says "I can neither confirm nor deny", then that leaves the possibility open.

Of course, it is still possible that there has been a script change. Only time will tell.


Quote
You seem persistent in ignoring what Evangeline herself has to say on the matter:


Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 10:59am

Post #38 of 50 (209 views)
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PJ's "No Legoromance" could well be like JJ's "No Khan" [In reply to] Can't Post

we know how that one turned out. Laugh LaughLaugh

In short, careful when trusting the J's. LaughLaughLaugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 3 2013, 11:00am)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 11:19am

Post #39 of 50 (199 views)
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Abrams had room to maneuver, though.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...because as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), people asked Abrams "Will Benicio del Toro be playing Khan in the Star Trek sequel?", and he said "Not true."

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 12:33pm

Post #40 of 50 (185 views)
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Both Abrams and Cumberbatch denied Khan [In reply to] Can't Post

because of Abrams's mystery box.

I have a feeling that there will be a variation of Legoromance, but no kissing so they can always say it's no romance.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Elthir
Gondor

Sep 3 2013, 1:35pm

Post #41 of 50 (172 views)
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i as in machine [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I also just hated that name, period. Itaril rhyms with drill and shrill. Yes, that annoying.




Itaril is Quenya and attested in The Shibboleth of Feanor for example, becoming Idril in Sindarin form actually, and I'm no linguist but it's possible that Quenya short i is pronounced as in English machine rather than as in drill for instance. Actually, pronouncing i as in machine is much more than 'possible' here according to the pronunciation guide in The Return of the King, but that's a longer tale.

Why wood [pun alert] one of the Would-elves have a Quenya name? I don't know, but it's changed anyway so I'll move on. Actually, according to the filmmakers even Sindarin short i sounds like i as in machine, which I disagree with despite the guide in The Return of the King [as there we have RGEO to clarify in my opinion]. But I digress.


Alright then. Is Lilly's comment about a 'love story' sound or not? I can't read all these posts! Someone who knows -- and was so interested in my subject line as to actually read this annoying, possibly incorrect but yet pedantic post -- sum up the scenario please.

Crazy


(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 3 2013, 1:43pm)


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 3 2013, 1:46pm

Post #42 of 50 (164 views)
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EL made this comment... [In reply to] Can't Post

during her Tauriel Q&A Twitter chat on August 12...




Quote

Many of u have been asking about a Lego/Tauriel romance. I can neither confirm nor deny. #underpenaltyofdeath



Which begs the question, if PJ categorically denied a Lego/Tauriel romance when the Tauriel character was announced, whiy is Evie not allowed to?






In Reply To

Alright then. Is Lilly's comment about a 'love story' sound or not? I can't read all these posts! Someone who knows -- and was so interested in my subject line as to actually read this annoying, possibly incorrect but yet pedantic post -- sum up the scenario please.







"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Sep 3 2013, 1:47pm)


Elthir
Gondor

Sep 3 2013, 1:49pm

Post #43 of 50 (160 views)
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Thanks but... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I meant is her more general comment about a 'love story' sound, which would be different from confirming [or not] a 'romance' with Legolas.

Earlier someone posted this:


Quote


Tauriel isn’t only a fierce warrior; she has a softer side, too. “She will definitely have a love story,” Lilly says. “I can’t give away too much about it. It’s not a huge focus but it is there and it is important and it does drive Tauriel and her story and her actions.”




Is that much, at least, 'sound'? Sorry if I was unclear before.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 3 2013, 1:52pm)


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 3 2013, 1:59pm

Post #44 of 50 (144 views)
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Oh, right... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, those comments were taken from this interview in Engtertainment Weekly...

http://www.movieweb.com/...ine-lilly-as-tauriel


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Skaan
Lorien


Sep 3 2013, 2:14pm

Post #45 of 50 (142 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Just because PJ said that in the past, doesn't mean EL is suddenly allowed to talk about it aswell. She was probably unfamiliar with PJ's statement in the past and therefore thought it would be the wisest to just not confirm/deny it (because she's not allowed to mention anything about the plot)

I understand your confusion (i tend to read way too much into certain quotes/lines aswellTongue), but i wouldn't look so deep into that if i were you.


Elthir
Gondor

Sep 3 2013, 2:39pm

Post #46 of 50 (125 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

I see. So the plot thickens.

Well from my perspective anyway, since I hadn't read this Wink

I didn't know this during my last chat here about Kili, when I endured, as it seemed to me, the painful pointing fingers of correction and caution: that it was a reporter who said Kili was 'pursuing' Tauriel, not Turner. Yes that was true, and I was ashamed as I had not noted the clear distinction in the interview. And yes, maybe that reporter was wrong or being misleading, despite talking to folks who should know [one would assume].

And so, given only Turner's actual comment to go by, I slogged away to reconsider; and scorn was my supper that night, served by me to me, if no one else, and it was bitter [but nourishing!]

... but now this: a 'love story'.

Hmm.

Although it doesn't actually say 'Lilly said' directly before the quote in question Tongue


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 2:57pm

Post #47 of 50 (136 views)
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The Story So Far [In reply to] Can't Post

Elthir, here's a summary of what I know so far on the topic of "Tauriel romance / love story":

  • Peter Jackson said, after announcing the creation of the character Tauriel and describing her role briefly, that she was not created as a love interest for Legolas.
  • In the Total Film article (Summer 2012) referenced above, Matthew Leyland wrote about Kili: "In addition to chasing treasure, he's also pursuing female elf Tauriel." What exactly Aiden Turner said about this is not known. I would bet the farm that he did not use the word "pursue"; it doesn't sound like anything he would say. Rather it sounds like Leyland's attempt to write a "cute" sentence (in Luke Evans' portion Leyland writes "Since being cast as a hot, dragon-bothering archer in The Hobbit, Evans has gone from Bard to worse" (groan) ). Aiden Turner's only quote on the subject of Tauriel was "I guess he knows nothing can ever happen. She's about 20 ft tall and he's only two!" My take on this has been that it will provide some comedy in DOS because of the height difference, etc., but there will be no "romance" as such.
  • In April of this year, an attendee of HobbitCon in Germany was told by the DOS panel organizer, Stefan Servos, that (1) Azog dies in DOS, and (2) Tauriel has a big crush on Thranduil, tells him about it and gets rejected, and pouts about the rejection by deliberately letting the Dwarves escape. This rumor sounded pretty absurd, and I was very suspicious because of the timing (around April 1st) that the conversation was reported to have taken place. I also searched more than 20 subsequent pages of the Herr der Ringe website in German pertaining to Thranduil, and found nothing at all. Plus, we know for sure now that the Azog part is untrue.
  • The rumors concerning Legolas started up again this summer as the publicity for DOS began. In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Evangeline stated that Tauriel "definitely has a love story", but did not elaborate and said that it "was not a huge focus". Concerning Legolas, she says:

“Tauriel’s relationship with Legolas is significant. They’ve known each other since they were children, and Legolas’ dad, [Elven king] Thranduil, has a soft spot for Tauriel and sees something very special in her. So if you grow up side by side, and your dad has a very special spot in his heart for this young woman who’s a fantastic warrior, I think it’s hard not to notice her.” She laughs. “That’s probably as much as I can say.”
So it's all left vague, with many possible interpretations. The most probable scenario is that she has some star-crossed feelings for Legolas, but that this never becomes a "romance". We may have to wait until December to find out.
  • Finally Evangeline reiterated the "coy" comment concerning Legolas in a recent Twitter discussion with fans. "Many of u have asked about a Lego / Tauriel romance", she wrote. "I can neither confirm nor deny, under penalty of death". As I said above, this sounds a lot like publicity, to hint about Legolas (most of the Twitter followers will probably never have heard Peter Jackson's comment from a long time ago). Another reason for being so coy, which I did not mention before, is that the actors all have strict "gag" clauses in their contracts; they are forbidden to reveal plot details. Hence the "under penalty of death" phrase (she also used this when asked whether Tauriel will speak with Thorin).

That's my summary of the story so far...

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




(This post was edited by Altaira on Oct 31 2013, 10:29pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 2:58pm

Post #48 of 50 (118 views)
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Things might have changed in the meantime [In reply to] Can't Post

They could have decided against Legoromance in the spur of the moment (negative reactions) and then go back to it when everyone calmed down.

Can't deny or confirm usually means "yes but not allowed to say it".

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Elthir
Gondor

Sep 3 2013, 3:27pm

Post #49 of 50 (107 views)
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Thanks Dweller [In reply to] Can't Post

Well done. I appreciate it.

Okay so Lilly said: 'It's not a huge focus but it is there and it is important and it does drive Tauriel and her story and her actions.' And yes I could have underscored the first five words and nothing else, for example.

And it's not a 'huge' focus? Proceed with caution, okay yes; but huge is an interesting choice of word Smile


marillaraina
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 11:05pm

Post #50 of 50 (105 views)
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love love love [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
“Tauriel’s relationship with Legolas is significant. They’ve known each other since they were children, and Legolas’ dad, [Elven king] Thranduil, has a soft spot for Tauriel and sees something very special in her. So if you grow up side by side, and your dad has a very special spot in his heart for this young woman who’s a fantastic warrior, I think it’s hard not to notice her.” She laughs. “That’s probably as much as I can say.”


That's it, that's the quote that made me think of them more like a family(even if she's just sort of semi-adopted).

I can't see how a romantic feelings for Legolas would drive her actions. Given his own place(he's not in charge, his father is) - her letting the dwarves go wouldn't seem like it would be "revenge"(plus it doesn't seem like she does, as she follows them to Lake Town despite being told not to) for her feelings not being requited. This isn't ike Eowyn who, Tauriel is leader of the guards, she doesn't need to "run off" to make a point or go to a glorious death instead continuing to live an insignificant life. If she wanted to die there are more convenient ways to do it for her.

It doesn't sound like there is any romantic thing going on with Thranduil but to be honest her actions make more sense in the context of an unrequited love for Thranduil than one for Legolas - I could see how that situation could drive her to take some of the actions she supposedly takes.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Sep 3 2013, 11:07pm)

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