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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 3 2013, 2:09pm

Post #76 of 94 (201 views)
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Very well said.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 3 2013, 2:15pm

Post #77 of 94 (211 views)
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Whenham's disasterous 300 speach? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought he was great in 300, especially his narration, and thought he was just about the best thing (along with the visuals) in this fun and interesting, but far from perfect, film.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 3:00pm

Post #78 of 94 (194 views)
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he was awful IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

In everything I saw him. Glad that I haven't sene him in anything since Australia.

The Crispian Day speech was brutal. His screechy voice was so unsuitable for it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



glor
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 3:13pm

Post #79 of 94 (188 views)
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relevant is relative and Hollywood... [In reply to] Can't Post

doesn't actually produce many interesting roles, that's why Indie films are so revered by actors and audiences alike.

I would also point out that whilst I am not a fan of 300, it was quite a significant film in Hollywood terms, the way it looked, they way it was made, and it's box office.

I think the problem with your argument isn't that it is entirely invalid or without merit, it's just that you seem to assume that Hollywood and the english speaking mainstream film industry is a creative endeavour in which talent trumps hype, that actors are chosen for roles based on talent and skill rather than box office draw, studio/agent politics, or old fashioned typecasting and nepotism.


Quote

Bloom faded quickly because he didn't try to get interesting roles


Perhaps he did try but didn't get them, for whatever reason, it may be he didn't have the chops, or perhaps he is considered too good looking by directors and casting bods to do an interesting part.
BTW, Bloom has only done one franchise POTC and that didn't start off as a franchise.


Quote

Huge majority of LOTR actors hasn't been in anything relevant since LOTR


If you are defining relevant relative to LOTR, the most highly acclaimed trilogy and major blockbusters in the history of cinema, then by definition almost anything these actors do, aside from gaining an Acting Oscar with a surprising, non-standard, no one would expected that role to win, has to be regarded as a failure.



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 3 2013, 3:25pm

Post #80 of 94 (186 views)
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Wow. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok.


glor
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 3:27pm

Post #81 of 94 (198 views)
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Wenham [In reply to] Can't Post

Wait until BBC's Top of the Lake hits awards season/ the international TV market then you might find a LOTR actor with something else significant on their resume Cool


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 4:21pm

Post #82 of 94 (185 views)
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No desire to watch him in anything [In reply to] Can't Post

shrug

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 3 2013, 4:55pm

Post #83 of 94 (169 views)
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Hi Glor [In reply to] Can't Post

Here he is talking about the role:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ke/david-wenham.html

I agree, Top of the Lake was very good (if a bit grim) and it is bound to win a lot of awards, especially Elisabeth Moss and Peter Mullan who I thought were both brilliant.


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 6:23pm

Post #84 of 94 (158 views)
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Fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I would suggest, however, that this stance will leave you unable to make critical judgements about his abilities.


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 6:28pm

Post #85 of 94 (150 views)
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I know that we define success differently, [In reply to] Can't Post

and that's fine. Personally, I find being open to a wide range of viewing experiences is very rewarding. There are so many gems to be found out there.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 3 2013, 7:32pm

Post #86 of 94 (139 views)
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I suggest you hunt out In My Father's Den [In reply to] Can't Post

for another look at Miranda Otto.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 7:37pm

Post #87 of 94 (137 views)
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I've seen enough of him to deem him a subpar actor [In reply to] Can't Post

I really don't need to see more. Look, I'm not trying to annoy people around here but I really don't like this actor. I think he's bad and his voice is grating. It's nice that you are a fan and that he's in some good Aussie TV show so everyone's happy. You can watch the show and I won't get it here. Eveyrone wins.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 3 2013, 7:38pm)


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 8:33pm

Post #88 of 94 (130 views)
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Failed Actors. [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you aware that Tom Cruise, Matt Damon, Al Pacino, Nick Cage, Christopher Walken, Robert De Niro have all failed to make much of an impact in the world's largest film industry? Possibly they are all sub par?

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 8:34pm

Post #89 of 94 (123 views)
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Duh, eveyrone's subpar to Bollywood [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 11:36pm

Post #90 of 94 (115 views)
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And the best film I've seen this year [In reply to] Can't Post

premiered in Norwich and won't make it to the US 'til 2014. As others have pointed out, there are multiple markets for actors. Making it in Hollywood films is about fitting a certain film-making culture, just as it does in Bollywood or any national film industry. It's as much about looks, and what happens to be fashionable at the time as it is about acting ability. The golden days of Hollywood are far behind now - Hollywood's modus operandi these days seems to be copying or remaking things that have been made elsewhere, but without the wit of a Billy Wilder or the directorial flair of a Hitchcock. Not to mention the current obsession with comic books. There are exceptions, of course, but to say that not making it in Hollywood these days is a sign of being a 'sub par' actor is not accurate.

I think it's great that PJ and co, instead of recruiting typical Hollywood types, decided to cast the best actors for the job.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


huzzlewhat
The Shire

Sep 3 2013, 11:38pm

Post #91 of 94 (112 views)
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purely commercial? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
In short, PJ hasn't picked actors who sparked industry interest in grooming them for long careers. Bloom faded quickly because he didn't try to get interesting roles that may not be commercial but stand the test of time. He was driven by purely commercial, get-my-ass-in-as-many-franchises-as-possible instinct and when his solo flight crash landed he had nothing to fall back on.


Gotta say, this is a bit inaccurate. Regardless of what you think of Bloom's chops, he charted a respectable course out of the LOTR gates, picking a stream of interesting films both small and large with people he wanted to work with. Calling Pirates an obvious franchise choice is 20/20 hindsight; the first movie was an out-of-left-field hit. When it was announced, it was generally considered to be a joke (a movie based on an amusement-park ride?). Bloom took the role to work with Johnny Depp. Far from being about the money, it more appears that he picked movies with people he wanted to work with. Ned Kelly with Heath Ledger, Black Hawk Down, with Ridley Scott (which led to Kingdom of Heaven); Elizabethtown, to work with Cameron Crowe... and he also started his own production company to make the independent Haven. All were self-contained stories without a franchise in sight. (Then there's Troy, which was a terrible movie and did none of its cast any favors, but what young actor would turn down the chance to do scenes with Peter O'Toole?) Bloom then intentionally backed off of blockbusters after getting burned out on Pirates -- reportedly turning down Prince of Persia (wise choice, in retrospect) in favor of stage work and independent films. The only movie that strikes me as a cash-grab potential franchise launch was the dismal Three Musketeers, and let's hope everyone involved in that movie learned their lesson!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 12:35pm

Post #92 of 94 (90 views)
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I disagree about the best for the job [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that, with a one or two exceptions, my opinion of course, everyone did at least a decent job but the only actors that I deem irreplacable are Bean, Mckellen and Serkis. They embodied their characters to the point of total identification, IMO, of course. Eveyrone else I could see easily recast but these 3 were those characters. And this is my opinion not just for LOTR but Hobbit too. Good job but not irreplacable.

And I guess when production has a huge cast it helps that majority of actors don't command big salaries either.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 2:48pm

Post #93 of 94 (76 views)
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Best actors [In reply to] Can't Post

The point I was making was the PJ picked the best actors for the job from his perspective - but he picked them for their acting ability - the ability to portray the role in the way he wanted it done, rather than because of their Hollywood status or star power. Nor does he seem to have looked for a 'hot' new actor that might be great in other films, and use LOTR as a vehicle for promoting them. To me, that shows that he had his priorities right.

Obviously we will all have our personal preferences for casting that may disagree with the ones the director chose - I thought Sean Astin's accent problems interfered with the naturalness of his performance, for example - especially having heard Bill Nighy's near perfect take on the role of Sam. So clearly I wouldn't have picked the same people. On the other hand, I wouldn't have picked Viggo Mortensen either - and he turned out to be a revelation in my opinion, so what do I know! Incidentally, I'm more critical of the Hobbit casting - Radaghastly mainly, but also James Nesbitt playing the same character he's played in everything he's ever been in. But I'm still eternally grateful to Jackson et al for avoiding Hollywood style casting.




In Reply To
I think that, with a one or two exceptions, my opinion of course, everyone did at least a decent job but the only actors that I deem irreplacable are Bean, Mckellen and Serkis. They embodied their characters to the point of total identification, IMO, of course. Eveyrone else I could see easily recast but these 3 were those characters. And this is my opinion not just for LOTR but Hobbit too. Good job but not irreplacable.

And I guess when production has a huge cast it helps that majority of actors don't command big salaries either.


"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 5:24pm

Post #94 of 94 (84 views)
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I actually prefer when they pick a hot thing with potential [In reply to] Can't Post

It's always exciting when a big or at least important movie discovers someone who goes places after his/her break. I do, however, agree that many hot things are not worth the hype. Orlando Bloom was one of them and then came a slew of other pretty face/no range/no charisma actors all the way to Taylor Lautner whose trajectory is very similar. Both were given 7.5 million salary before they opened a movie and both bombed that solo movie that was supposed to prove they had star power.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.


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