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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Can someone give me all we have on dain in the hobbit?
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Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:21pm

Post #26 of 44 (234 views)
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I'd find 15-30 minutes acceptable... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
so at a guess I'd say he has 15-30 minutes screentime total


He doesn't need to become a major character, but he does need to f*** some s*** up at the Bo5A. And having him be the one to kill Azog would almost make up for Azog even being in the films.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 18 2013, 9:22pm

Post #27 of 44 (237 views)
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Don't forget ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Billy Connolly is well known for joking around and exaggerating, especially when it comes down to interviews relating to these films. I wouldn't jump on him yet, he's probably only having a laugh (at our expense!)



Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:25pm

Post #28 of 44 (225 views)
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Hopefully this.... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 18 2013, 9:28pm

Post #29 of 44 (236 views)
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Sometimes I feel PJ is having a laugh at my expense. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue(In case you haven't guessed the frequent purse mentions are an covert attempt to persuade them to film a new scene)

To be honest with all the hoopla about the 'hot' Thorin and the way he sexed up the character, I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if they just ignored the book and made him king instead for worry of denting their box office.

Who's to say Dain will become king? Perhaps Dwalin is crowned instead...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 18 2013, 9:28pm

Post #30 of 44 (218 views)
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For me anyways... [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain Ironfoot should be one of those characters who while not having too much screen time the audience should be cheering when he is made king under the mountain. He should be likable and a character people care about. But at this point with what I see Jackson doing nobody is really gonna give a rats but who he is. Which I just find disrespectful to the character. Why even bother to include him. Maybe Jackson will make up another dwarf to make king instead of Dain Crazy wouldn't surprise me any


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:40pm

Post #31 of 44 (224 views)
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As one of them, I would clarify that... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is how I have always felt about the book character. I did not like that Dain showed up at the end out of nowhere and became King instead of one of the other Dwarves (like Balin, my book favorite). If the movie also did this I would find it faithful.Wink

Jackson might change that as he is expanding a lot else, and if he does I would likely be OK with that. (He already changed how I view Thorin, a book character I could take or leave).


(This post was edited by arithmancer on Aug 18 2013, 9:43pm)


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:44pm

Post #32 of 44 (201 views)
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Yep... [In reply to] Can't Post


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I dearly hope he is given something in TABA to make up for this, and show the casual viewer why he is truly worthy of becoming King under the Mountain


...and that something should be killing Azog, since he was robbed of that to make way for Thorin at the Battle of Azanulbizar...

Ok, last time I'm going to mention that wish Wink


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:44pm

Post #33 of 44 (237 views)
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As for the rest of Connolly's various comments about Dain... [In reply to] Can't Post

...DarkJackal has it covered on her Heirs of Durin website


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:46pm

Post #34 of 44 (198 views)
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I agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

He needs a heroic moment or two.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 9:49pm

Post #35 of 44 (201 views)
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Just wondering... [In reply to] Can't Post

Was that because you didn't know Dain's back history at the time you read The Hobbit? Or did you dislike it despite knowing his standing among the line of Durin?


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 18 2013, 9:52pm

Post #36 of 44 (186 views)
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Don't worry I'll continue to mention it as well [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain Killing Azog please PJ.

Incidently is their any truth to the rumours I have heard that back in the day, fan out cry on this very site (well the old TORn) was responsible for some of the changes PJ made to LOTR (e.g. deleting the Arwen the Amazon Warrior stuff)?

If so...surely the amount of complaints recently would be picked up by them...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 18 2013, 10:12pm

Post #37 of 44 (183 views)
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Honestly... [In reply to] Can't Post

At this point I don't think Jackson really cares what fans of the book think Crazy...

Which is why he is making HIS version of the Hobbit which barely IMO resembles what Tolkien wrote in many places Wink


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 18 2013, 10:19pm

Post #38 of 44 (189 views)
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Well in fairness, Tolkien did come to rather detest the tone and style of the Hobbit... [In reply to] Can't Post

If his comments in Letters or notes in UFT and The History of the Hobbit are anything to go by

But to be frank I'm going to disagree with him I like hobbit book (plot holes, simplicity and silly humour included-just look at my avatar) as it was concieved a stand alone childrens tale, and even after reading all the backstory and additonal versiosn (some rather cool I have to admit) its still the way I generally approach the story-the Thorin in the book being a different one to the Thorin in Quest For Erebor.

(Though I doubt Tolkien would be pleased with Azog the Lumpy Fork Monster, Radgast the Drug addled rabbit wrangler or Tauriel 'Phillpa Boyens' Chief of the Guards)

Don't know what that says about me as a fan.

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 18 2013, 10:28pm

Post #39 of 44 (173 views)
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But... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
If his comments in Letters or notes in UFT and The History of the Hobbit are anything to go by

Tolkien also knew enough to leave it alone with only altering a few things. So he obviously was content to leave it after the minor revisions (riddles in the dark)

I love the parts of Jackson's films that stuck to the book I just don't care for his made up material, compared to Tolkien it is really weak and much of it makes no sense (Azog's inclusion) IMO



(This post was edited by sinister71 on Aug 18 2013, 10:29pm)


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Aug 18 2013, 10:30pm

Post #40 of 44 (206 views)
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Dain *book spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

"The Hobbit' was the first book by Tolkien that I ever read, in 1976.

I finished LotR two years later. I did not, however, read the appendices at that time, considering them more of a reference source to look something up in if I wanted, than a thing to read for itself. By the first time I would have read them all the way through, I would have read both LotR and "The Hobbit" a number of times, so my opinions of characters and events were thoroughly formed.

I can't say that I even recollect exactly what was said about Dain in them, it did not leave an impression at the time. Personally I found the bits about the future fates of the LotR characters far more interesting - Arwen and Aragorn, Sam and the other Hobbits' families, that Gimli and Legolas did fulfil their project of visiting both the Glittering Caves and Fangorn together and may have even sailed to the West in company, etc.

I gather (from reading posts of fans here for whom Dain is more of a favorite) that he slew Azog in the battle of Azanulbizar, and while very young, and that he distinguished himself and fell (as a fairly old Dwarf but still King under the Mountain) in the War in the North that happened while the events of LotR were playing out.

Looking analytically at this information and what PJ and Company have done in AUJ, my personal guess would be that, yes, Dain may slay Azog. Or, if he does not (I can also see the film logic of giving this to Thorin in light of the way that story was altered for the films), some suitably awesome warriorly act will be invented for him. Considering that he dies in the books defending the King of Dale's body, maybe a scene in which he saves Bard from some impressive enemy in the battle? (In which, obviously, neither Bard nor Dain wind up dead, unlike Brand and Dain in the LotR Appendices). PJ and Company's approach to incorporating Appendix material in their adaptation seems less to adapt it as events of another time and place shown within the movie as exposition, and more to make changes to that material and the book timeline that can bring these very events into the timeline of "The Hobbit" movies.

I also think that his not opting to participate in Thorin's quest may not be a black mark against the character in the movie, in the long run. We are not given his reasons. They may be the very reasons Balin proposes (in the film) to Thorin for why THEY need not go on the quest. Thorin feels he must, to fulfil the dreams of his father and grandfather, to bring his people back to the home in which they belong - but Thror/Thrain are not Dain's father and grandfather, not the Dwarves of Erebor his people - the quest is properly Thorin's.

These reasons of Dain's could quite reasonably be conveyed in some manner in the later films (E. g. Thorin initially reluctant to call for his help persuaded by a more reasonable Balin to try). A doubtful undertaking against a Dragon which is likely to endanger his people is one thing, defending a fellow Dwarf kingdom that has been won back against the odds from hostile Men and Elves is another.

And of course Dain does deal fairly with Bard and the Elves after the battle, which I certainly expect in the movie as well.


(This post was edited by arithmancer on Aug 18 2013, 10:33pm)


flameofudun
Lorien

Aug 19 2013, 2:18am

Post #41 of 44 (146 views)
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Not a chance [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin was shown beaten bloody and battered... On pjs facebook page. Just flat out not happening.

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Aug 19 2013, 3:25am

Post #42 of 44 (118 views)
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Nope (about Arwen) [In reply to] Can't Post

People just liked to think they had this sort of influence. ;)

Actually the filmmakers felt she HAD to be in all three movies, and when they thought of a better way to accomplish that, they chucked the idea of her at Helm's Deep.


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 19 2013, 5:31am

Post #43 of 44 (108 views)
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Dain [In reply to] Can't Post

If PJ had stuck to canon and had Dain kill Azog at the the Battle of Anazulbizar at the very young age for a Dwarf of 32, it would have really shown how much of a bad azz he really was.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Aug 19 2013, 12:52pm

Post #44 of 44 (105 views)
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I wonder if Dain's awesome secret line [In reply to] Can't Post

is the battle cry Gimli makes at Helms Deep, it goes something like "Barak khazad, khazad ai menu" "The axes of the dwarves, the dwarves are upon you" probably not exactly right from memory but it is my second favourite battle cry in Tolkiens work behind Hurins "Aure entulava" "day shall come again". My spelling is probably off on that too.

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