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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Hidden Door?

Silwen_Peredhil
Rivendell


Aug 16 2013, 4:00pm

Post #1 of 15 (1192 views)
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The Hidden Door? Can't Post

My sister and I were discussing the next Hobbit film and we are under the impression that this picture here is the door into the mountain. We believe this because, looking at the background of this picture here (to the right, in-between Bifur and Ori), there appears to be an opening that is of the same shape and size.

However, in the book, on Thorin's map, the runes say:

Quote
"Five feet high the door and three may walk abreast"

Clearly, if this is the Hidden Door, this is smaller.

I, personally, was hoping for a door that was reminiscent of when the Fellowship entered Moria in the Lord of the Rings.


What are your thoughts on this?

What's this? A Ranger caught off his guard?


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Aug 16 2013, 4:20pm

Post #2 of 15 (594 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be cool, if, as the key is put into the hole, the last rays of sun shine on the mountainside, and some orange moon letters and shapes of astrophysic /astrolabial calculations and diagrams of the original plan they used to calculate Durin's Day, appear on the rock, while suspenseful violin music plays and more of the writing appears. After we bask in the epicness, The music fades with the light of sun and the moon/sun letters disappear, and it gets dark, then someone (Nori/?Kili/ Fili?)makes a comment, "Is that it?". Then there is a rumble and the door opens.

How I imagine it!


Luinnár
Rivendell


Aug 16 2013, 4:33pm

Post #3 of 15 (566 views)
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The door is about five feet high. [In reply to] Can't Post

And maybe the "three may walk abreast" applies for inside the tunnel?


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Aug 16 2013, 6:31pm

Post #4 of 15 (482 views)
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door accessories [In reply to] Can't Post

Remember though, the door on the East Gate of Moria in Hollin was made by BOTH elves and dwarves at a time where trade between Moria and Hollin was commonplace, and the elves and dwarves got along (for one of the brief periods where they played nice).

I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs.

Narvi the dwarf of Moria made the doors, but Celebrimbor the elf smith (the creator of the rings of power along with Annatar [Sauron]) made the signs. It was a joint effort, so it's no surprise the crew made the doors with flowy vines and leaves around the arched opening-very elvish.

If the dwarves of Erebor made the secret door, and the elves did not aid them (which, given it's secrecy, I can imagine not), then I wouldn't expect there to be much in the way of similarity in appearance to the East Gate of Moria.

Plus, given the hidden part of the door, it is possible that there might be a keyhole glowing (they have to know where to put the darn thing obviously), and perhaps an outline of the door, but I cannot imagine it. If there is any "artwork" involved with the door when it opens, I would imagine it to be very angular and intricately knotted, much like the dwarf sigils we see all over their clothing, especially Fili and Kili's, and the dwarf architecture we see in Erebor (the gate of Moria, however reminds me heavily of Rivendell architecture).

Also, the Hollin/East Gate door was made with isildi (sp?) and since it was Moria, could it be possible that it is some form of Mithril? Or a substance made from it? If it is, then it is nigh on impossible that Erebor would have it, given that it was not a kingdom at that point, and that Moria is the only place in Middle-earth where Mithril is found. If, however, it is a similar substance to what was used to write the moon runes on the map, then it is very well possible that it could be used.

But, the Moria gate, while invisible when closed, was never intended to be a secret door. Whereas this one was. So I cannot imagine anyone wishing to draw more attention to it than has already been done.

As far as size goes, since Thorin is supposed to be 5' 2" tall (155 cm for you non-Americans' benefit Smile ) He would have to duck. Since in the picture the ceiling is obviously higher than his head, I think it could be safely assumed it is about 5.5-6 foot tall. And it certainly does not look wide enough for three dwarves abreast, especially since (thanks to Gimli) we know that dwarves are more broad chested than humans. It seems as though the production crew either did not wish to pay attention to measurements, or they decided to visually emphasize that Smaug was far too big to get in there (and that is in the book), thus making it a fittable but tight single file passageway for the dwarves. There would be absolutely no question at that point in the audience's mind that Smaug won't ever remotely fit in there, unless his diet has been greatly suffering of late Wink

But, alas, it is mere speculation Smile Feel free to tell me I am wrong when DOS comes out if my musings are incorrect Cool

Tauriel (as her hair catches during BO5A)- Ah, now I understand why you keep your beard so short, master Kili!
Kili: Um, because it grows slowly? (glares at her for perceived insult)
Tauriel: Because your arrows don't get tangled in your *^%*(^$%* beard every time you shoot! (more curses as it gets further tangled)
Kili: Um, YEAH! That's it! That's why I keep my beard short! (strides off triumphantly with a huge grin on his face, still shooting arrows as the cursing and tangles continues behind him)

Tauriel keeps fighting the tangles on the battlefield long after Dain takes the throne and Dale is rebuilt. Frodo takes the ring to Morder and once Sauron is defeated she FINALLY gets the last arrow out.

(This post was edited by Cirashala on Aug 16 2013, 6:35pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Aug 16 2013, 7:12pm

Post #5 of 15 (440 views)
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It is the hidden door and perhaps Thorin enters with Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

And stays watching from the door, and when Bilbo is gone and Smaug sets out looking for him, thats when the dwarves came in and have their confrontation with Smaug. Maybe Bilbo makes it to the front gate and scapes to Dale and there meets Gandalf and the others wearing the arkenstone with him. WOw too much speculation for today!Tongue

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Aug 16 2013, 11:59pm

Post #6 of 15 (293 views)
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Wasn't It The West Gate? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was the west gate of Moria that had the elvish inscriptions on it


MasterOrc
Rivendell


Aug 17 2013, 12:37am

Post #7 of 15 (301 views)
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Just an off the wall guess on this.... [In reply to] Can't Post

At the end of the movie when we see the Thrush fly to the Lonely Mountain. Is there any chance that the wall he's knocking the nut shell on is the doorway into the mountain? It does kind of look like a faint key hole in the picture. Tried finding a still from the movie with no luck. Just speculation...nothing more....Wink


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Aug 17 2013, 1:10am

Post #8 of 15 (259 views)
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oops [In reply to] Can't Post

you are right it was the west gate.

my bad Blush

Tauriel (as her hair catches during BO5A)- Ah, now I understand why you keep your beard so short, master Kili!
Kili: Um, because it grows slowly? (glares at her for perceived insult)
Tauriel: Because your arrows don't get tangled in your *^%*(^$%* beard every time you shoot! (more curses as it gets further tangled)
Kili: Um, YEAH! That's it! That's why I keep my beard short! (strides off triumphantly with a huge grin on his face, still shooting arrows as the cursing and tangles continues behind him)

Tauriel keeps fighting the tangles on the battlefield long after Dain takes the throne and Dale is rebuilt. Frodo takes the ring to Morder and once Sauron is defeated she FINALLY gets the last arrow out.


Lala
Registered User

Aug 17 2013, 1:36am

Post #9 of 15 (271 views)
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"A door five feet high and three broad" [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book when they finally found the door it was "five feet high and three broad". The opening in the picture is roughly 5.5 to 3, so I suppose the dimension is "accurate".


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 17 2013, 2:23am

Post #10 of 15 (228 views)
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Yes Crish [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Also, the Hollin/East Gate door was made with isildi (sp?) and since it was Moria, could it be possible that it is some form of Mithril? Or a substance made from it? If it is, then it is nigh on impossible that Erebor would have it, given that it was not a kingdom at that point, and that Moria is the only place in Middle-earth where Mithril is found. If, however, it is a similar substance to what was used to write the moon runes on the map, then it is very well possible that it could be used.


I remember reading somewhere about this. Ithildin, which was made from mithril by the elves.

They may have hadsome ink made with Ithildin to make the map with though ... seems plausible someone had a small amount, but not even close enough for doors.

Also the magic/secret word part was the elvish side of the magic at Morias Gates, hence in its absence a key was used here assuming we have the same level of craftsmanship at bot doors from the Dwarvish side.

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Aug 17 2013, 2:25am

Post #11 of 15 (236 views)
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no big deal [In reply to] Can't Post

I would have missed it too if I hadn't got a funny image of the Fellowship finally reaching the east gate only to find it closed and not knowing the password out lol

"Legolas, What's elvish for we're screwed?"



Cirashala
Grey Havens


Aug 17 2013, 3:03am

Post #12 of 15 (223 views)
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LOL!!!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been pukie and sick all day Frown

Your comment made me chuckle despite that! Laugh

Thank you for (temporarily) relieving my symptoms Smile

Though I have to clean the cracker crumbs off my screen now......

Someone on here has a signature line related to the password. I don't know who it is off the top of my head but it's hilarious!

Tauriel (as her hair catches during BO5A)- Ah, now I understand why you keep your beard so short, master Kili!
Kili: Um, because it grows slowly? (glares at her for perceived insult)
Tauriel: Because your arrows don't get tangled in your *^%*(^$%* beard every time you shoot! (more curses as it gets further tangled)
Kili: Um, YEAH! That's it! That's why I keep my beard short! (strides off triumphantly with a huge grin on his face, still shooting arrows as the cursing and tangles continues behind him)

Tauriel keeps fighting the tangles on the battlefield long after Dain takes the throne and Dale is rebuilt. Frodo takes the ring to Morder and once Sauron is defeated she FINALLY gets the last arrow out.


Angharad73
Rohan


Aug 17 2013, 8:31am

Post #13 of 15 (179 views)
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I thought so too... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that the thrush is knocking against the door or the wall just beside it.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Aug 17 2013, 9:02am

Post #14 of 15 (168 views)
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Yeah, I guess it must be... [In reply to] Can't Post

Otherwise, how else can we explain the knocking echoing all the way down to Smaug's chamber unless there is a hollow area behind the rock where the thrush is knocking? Smile


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Aug 17 2013, 1:43pm

Post #15 of 15 (157 views)
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That was how I aways understood it!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

 
 

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