Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
In memory of Reverend (long)


Jul 23 2013, 7:34am

Post #1 of 23 (672 views)
In memory of Reverend (long) Can't Post

I suddenly realized that today is the 10th anniversary of the death of Reverend, a TORn "First ager" who was much beloved, especially in the Reading Room. Reverend was, in fact, a Baptist minister. He was extremely well-read in Tolkien ouvre and lore, and had refreshing and often witty insights on his works as well as interesting moral insights.

Here are a few of my bookmarked Reverend posts. Since his entire TORn career was on the old boards, most of these are re-posts:

On Sam's Speech in TTT movie:

Here I must sharply criticize the movie (which I generally endorse) for Just Not Getting It. Frodo and Sam carry on because carrying on is itself the right thing to do, NOT because there was some good worth fighting for. Frodo isn't holding on to anything; his despair has NOT lifted, and he is sure that there will be nothing good to come home to. But he has been given a duty, and will keep faith with those who entrusted it to him, even should they and he perish. Again, I think it a philosophy particularly relevant to the Trenches of the Somme, and not a bad one for life in general.

The mysterious mail shirt. Made for the boy Earendil?

A classic: On Balrog Wings

Which Elves can sail West?

Morgoth's Taint explained.

I find it very helpful to think of Morgoth's corruption of the earth in terms of radioactivity; there's a little bit of it everywhere (background Morgoth), and it can be concentrated and/or used as a power source.

And a master-work: In Inquiry into the Waning of the Dunedain (are their lives really shorter as time passes?).

Notes on Dwarven engineering

Finally (thanks to a mathom from Entmaiden long ago), "is Legolas the greatest fighting Elf?"

Not nearly. —Reverend—

He's not even in sight of the top ten. My ranking;

1. Feanor; held off several Balrogs for some unspecified, but prolonged, time in single combat. And besides, he's just #1 in everything.

2. Fingolfin. Feanor's brother. Fought Morgoth one-on-one before the gates of Angband. Sure, he died, but would YOU mess with the guy who is the reason the Devil is lame?

3. Ecthelion. This one could be argued, but the Lord of the Fountain of Gondolin took down Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs WITH TWO BROKEN ARMS.

4. Finrod Felagund. Took on Sauron in magical combat. He lost, but made it respectable. Then when a werewolf came to eat Beren while they were chained to a wall, Finrod broke his chains and killed the thing barehanded. I don't see Leggy-poo even trying that trick.

5. Maedhros. Son of Feanor, we don't have many records of his great deeds, but he's got to go in here somewhere. The greatest warrior of the Sons of Feanor, he lost his right hand, but became equally dangerous with his left.

6. Gil-Galad. With his Spear Agilos, with Elendil and Narsil at his side, the High King was 'invincible.' Together, those two took down Sauron WITH THE RING.

7. Mablung of the Heavy Hand; could easily be swapped with #8 below, Mablung was Thingol Greycloak's enforcer for about fifteen thousand years.

8. Beleg Strongbow. The greatest tracker of all time, the most loyal friend, and the hair-tearing death scene. Thingol's left-hand man.

9. Glorfindel. Anybody who kills a Balrog deserves a spot. And dying doesn't disqualify, since EVERYBODY who fights a Balrog dies. Besides, he got better.

10. Turgon. For his heroics at the fall of Gondolin.

Below these ten you have the rest of the Sons of Feanor, and a truckload of other High Elves of the First Age (Including everybody whose name begins with 'Fin'). Gwindor of Nargothrond, led an ill-advised charge at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears that cut clean through the host of Morgoth, and BROKE THROUGH THE GATES OF ANGBAND. Cut off, captured, tortured, and enslaved, Gwindor survived, escaped, and made it cross-country back home. As Princes of the Noldor go, he's got to be considered a third-rater.

THEN you can start to think about Third Age folk. Gildor and his troop are Exiles. Do you realize what that means? It means they marched out of the Undying Lands and fought through the whole War of the Great Jewels AND EVERY WAR SINCE. And I am sure that High-Elven spear-carriers like Erestor in the House of Elrond wouldn't have to break stride to whomp a late-born Sinda like Legolas. Elrond himself is no doubt a heavy hitter, what with the blood of Beren and Tuor in the mix.

No, Legolas may be at the high end of the rankings among a rustic folk of a degenerate age, but he, like us all, can't hold a candle to the heroes of old.

(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Jul 23 2013, 7:43am)


Jul 23 2013, 10:36am

Post #2 of 23 (339 views)
*warm hug* Thank you, Elizabeth [In reply to] Can't Post

It could be 10-times longer and be wonderful to visit. Has it been that long? Wow! Look at those names in the replies!

These are great! He was a jewel, wasn't he? :) I'm so glad you remembered him. Was it on the 22nd or 23rd?

4th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - May 1, 2013


"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!

TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)

(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Jul 23 2013, 10:40am)

Tol Eressea

Jul 23 2013, 11:39am

Post #3 of 23 (314 views)
Thanks, Elizabeth [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't "know" Reverend. I feel we must have overlapped on Torn in general for at least a few months, but I didn't stray from the Movie board for quite some time. So I only became aware of him after he passed.

But there is no doubt that Reverend wove a significant part of the rich tapestry that makes up Torn, and I wish I'd been in the Reading Room while he was posting there.


Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 23 2013, 3:18pm

Post #4 of 23 (299 views)
Oh, thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I miss Reverend. I got a lovely message from his family after I sent them a card when he died.

His posts were such a gift, and I'm glad to know him for a brief time. His Khazad-dum posts were my favorite, in a long list of favorites.

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jul 23 2013, 3:20pm)

Tol Eressea

Jul 23 2013, 3:28pm

Post #5 of 23 (299 views)
A great testament to a person [In reply to] Can't Post

I never met nor interacted with this person, but this memorializing post shows great respect and admiration for a great fan. My hat is off to him and any others whose voices may be silent, yet whose words will live on in our memory.


Jul 23 2013, 5:55pm

Post #6 of 23 (297 views)
It was the 22nd. [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't have time to work on the post till last night, and I live in the next-to-last time zone on earth.

Aunt Dora Baggins

Jul 23 2013, 7:45pm

Post #7 of 23 (308 views)
Thank you so much, Elizabeth. [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember so well reading his great posts in the RR, and the sad day we found out he had sailed west.

I had no idea he ever used the phrase "Leggy-poo", though, even in jest :-)

And I love this precious line: "The transition between the early Balrog and the late Balrog is preserved for us in ink; the Balrog came into the room without wings and left with them. "

"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com

(This post was edited by Aunt Dora Baggins on Jul 23 2013, 7:50pm)


Jul 24 2013, 3:05am

Post #8 of 23 (295 views)
How thoughtful [In reply to] Can't Post

It's further testimony to Reverend's impact on TORn that so many here should remember him ten busy years after he left. I've always regretted that I joined this board just months too late to have known him at first hand.

Thanks, Elizabeth. And thanks again, Reverend.

squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary

= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Jul 24 2013, 7:04am

Post #9 of 23 (276 views)
At the time, the impact was tremendous. [In reply to] Can't Post

His last post was only hours before the aneurism that killed him. His son got on his computer, and as he was still apparently connected to TORn he posted a brief announcement in RR.

Our ever-vigilant mods moved it to Main, and a mammoth, long sequence of condolences followed. He was just a few months into a new job at a church in a small town in Iowa. TORn took up a collection that amounted to several hundred $$ as I recall (maybe someone here remembers how much) and sent it to his family.

Curious (not Curious G, the original Curious) wrote, "He was as a brother to me."

Tol Eressea

Jul 24 2013, 1:35pm

Post #10 of 23 (242 views)
So sad, he wouldn't be much older than my father is now, and he's still VERY active! [In reply to] Can't Post



Jul 24 2013, 1:47pm

Post #11 of 23 (251 views)
Nice decent guy. [In reply to] Can't Post

He always made it a point to welcome anyone new to, or long absent from, the Reading Room.

A true Scholar of Tolkien.

"The tragedy of territorial geeks is that they found the wonderful world of fantasy, then missed its point."
-Luke McKinney


Jul 24 2013, 4:23pm

Post #12 of 23 (236 views)
{{{Elizabeth}}} [In reply to] Can't Post

You're wonderful.

4th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - May 1, 2013


"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!

TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)


Jul 24 2013, 4:57pm

Post #13 of 23 (242 views)
Oh my... look what I found... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a sample of his wonderfulness...

In Inquiry into the Waning of the Dunedain (Absurdly Long)

4th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - May 1, 2013


"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!

TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)

Ethel Duath

Jul 25 2013, 2:47am

Post #14 of 23 (231 views)
What a pleasure to get acquainted [In reply to] Can't Post

with such a legendary member of TORn. I didn't venture much onto the message boards in those days--just the news mostly, and over the years I've come to realize what I missed!

Thank you so much.

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 25 2013, 3:32am

Post #15 of 23 (209 views)
Reverend is missed. [In reply to] Can't Post

He was a gentleman and a scholar, and had a delightful sense of humor that made his posts always a pleasure to read. I believe he was also the one who coined the TORNism "Utterly Unsupported Theory" (UUT) which is still in use. Knowing the loss we felt here, I can only imagine what those who knew him in RL felt upon his passing.

Thanks for the memorial, Elizabeth.


"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."


Jul 25 2013, 4:21am

Post #16 of 23 (230 views)
But wait, there's more! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am enormously indebted to Alassea Elensar for PMing me the link to The Complete Root Posts of Reverend, a compilation lovingly collected by Linguilindale.

Some are trivial, some profound. There are 34 posts as a discussion leader for the Bridge of Khazad-Dum (including the Balrog one), 16 posts as discussion leader for UT:The Gladden Fields, and a whole bunch more on Turin (currently being discussed in the Reading Room. Balrog fans mustn't miss Notes on Balrog evolution.

A real treasure. Thanks again, Alassea Elensar!

Alassea Elensar

Jul 25 2013, 4:27am

Post #17 of 23 (199 views)
You're very welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad I could help. I really didn't know Reverend very well, but after reading some of his posts, I wish that had known him better. Thanks for starting this thread, it's a nice memorial. Smile


Jul 25 2013, 2:19pm

Post #18 of 23 (180 views)
This is wonderful!! :) // [In reply to] Can't Post


4th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - May 1, 2013


"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."

I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!

TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)


Jul 26 2013, 6:08pm

Post #19 of 23 (184 views)
A quiet salute to someone I never knew.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but I'm thankful now that his posts live on.

Thanks, Elizabeth - and thanks, Reverend.

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 26 2013, 8:10pm

Post #20 of 23 (175 views)
Thank you for that fine tribute, Elizabeth. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's wonderful to see those posts again.

Ten years already? I still remember the shock of hearing the news, and the flood of condolences that followed.

May he rest in peace. He will long be remembered here.

The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


Aug 1 2013, 5:17pm

Post #21 of 23 (132 views)
Wow. Thank you Elizabeth. [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember Reverend, and loved reading his posts.
This was a very lovely (and fitting) tribute.

Before kids, exercising with LOTR meant listening to the soundtrack while I ran.

After kids, exercising with LOTR means having an all out dance party with the little ones to the "Break the Dam Release the River" disco mix form the Lego game.

Registered User

Sep 8 2013, 4:56pm

Post #22 of 23 (174 views)
He is still deeply missed [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems impossible it has been ten years. His posts were amazing and I still miss him. Thanks.

Dame Ioreth
Grey Havens

Oct 8 2013, 1:38pm

Post #23 of 23 (117 views)
I'm still wandering through this new and improved TORn ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... getting reacquainted after being away and I find this. Ten years and I've been there and now I'm back again.

I remember laughing until I cried at some of the UUT posted by Reverend. His death was the first time I lost a "virtual" friend and it hurt just as much as if I had lost those I saw everyday in person. His posts were interesting, witty, fun, but always respectful of others. I tried very hard to take my tone from him back then. He was a gentleman and a scholar of the best sort.

Thank you for posting these memories. I must make time to read them all!

“Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings


Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.