Specifically "A Shortcut to Mushrooms" and "Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire" - do you think they're a lovely tribute to the books or do you hate them with the fire of a thousand suns? Or are you totally oblivious/indifferent? Or are pickles the best thing ever?
They were cool, little references to the books, which I enjoyed. Even if they weren't exactly cannon (i.e. A Shortcut to Mushrooms) I did like them; they make me smile and think, "Yes, cool, that was in the book."
(This post was edited by Lothwen on Jul 18 2013, 12:59pm)
Okay, pickles may not be the best thing ever, but they're one of the best things ever, IMO
I'm surprised how many people liked the chapter title callouts, personally I felt they were a bit contrived... especially when the scene that follows is nothing like that chapter of the book, but that's just my two cents. I'm glad you all enjoyed them!
Still bugs the crap out of me to this day. I just feel like I'm being bludgeoned with a chapter title out of nowhere, especially when that scene had nothing to do with the original Shortcut to Mushrooms! It also leaves a bad taste in my mouth to have Merry and Pippin stealing Farmer Maggot's crops as adult hobbits who are by all accounts reasonably well-off.
And yeah, "Out of the Frying Pan..." "...and Into the Fire!" bugs me a little too, mostly because it seems out of character for Thorin and Gandalf to be finishing each other's sentences. I have slightly less of a problem with that line because the overall context is preserved, but I think it would've made more sense to have Fili and Kili say it since they're the ones always finishing each other's sentences.
And really, give pickles a chance! They're a dragon's favorite food, you know.
I totally see how you could be put off by those instances. Personally, I'm actually of the exact opposite opinion on both, sort of. I think the Merry and Pippin one works for me because they don't quote it exactly the same. There is the break up of "A shortcut to what? (after a shortcut is already mentioned by Merry) Mushrooms!" I think that more natural flow to the conversation makes it work for me. But I never thought of your second point regarding M & P. Lol, great point! Poor Farmer Maggot...
I do think you make a good point about how Fili and Kili could have been the ones (or one line) of the frying pan reference. I know, in the book, Tolkien mentions it being said by Bilbo, and later passing into a proverb. Here in the film, I think the idea is that this phrase is already a proverb, of some sort. So it's more like Thorin is beginning to (random examples to compare with) ...say a famous phrase...quote a memorable quote from a famous film...or something similar. Gandalf, hearing it at some point before (because it's a phrase that has an established meaning within the language), is merely completing it for him in a moment of great urgency.
Anyways, that was probably more analysis than you wanted (or that I should have given), but I hope that gave you an idea of why I do like their usage in the films.
I totally get why you like these moments, and no analysis is too much IMO! I much prefer Bilbo's invention of the proverb as told in TH, but it's also pretty obvious why it wouldn't have worked on film.
I for one really felt the absence of Farmer Maggot and the "conspirators" Merry and Pippin (and Fatty Bolger!). I think leaving that out took away some of Merry's credibility as the very shrewd hobbit he was, and that's a shame because I always really enjoyed his character in the books. Not that he was awful in the films, but he and Pippin got used as comic relief a little too often and without demonstrating any reason to take them seriously until much much later in the story. The "Mushrooms" moment kind of exemplified that comic relief element in my mind, and I felt it sold their characters short.
That's just my two cents, or four cents, or a dollar or two if you like! Can we agree we both like cats? Because one is chewing on my toes at the moment, and distracting as it is I haven't the heart to stop him
What do you know about cooking dwarf -Tom(?) Huggins
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It's funny how we hear Fatty Bolger's name, said by Bilbo, during the Long Expected Party. And the actor playing Fatty looks to be 50-60 (probably the proper age for Frodo, etc.). And no Folco Boffin, too!
Yeah, Merry and Pippin really do shine in the books during TT. I love their conversations, mostly when trying to figure out what to do/where to go next. On the other hand, this childishness we see in the films for the first film really gives them an interesting character arc when we leave them in ROTK.