Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Nargothrond and pride (more pride! Pride everywhere!)

Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 21 2013, 2:12am


Views: 96
Shortcut
Nargothrond and pride (more pride! Pride everywhere!) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Woops, missed this part. (Why? I only asked about 14,000 questions...!)

When it comes to the Valar struggling against each other, Morgoth's spite certainly trumps Ulmo's compassion in this story. Ulmo's intervention goes amiss twice. I think his healing via Ivrin of Turin's woe was Turin's chance to make a new start in life, and he blew it. He's got all the hubris of someone in a Greek tragedy, and that dooms Nargothrond. (Once again, Ulmo's message is ignored--why does he even bother? Doesn't he seem like Melian being ignored? It's not easy being an Ainu among lesser beings or a Cassandra, another tragic Greek character.) I agree about the 'second chance' like the cycle of laughter. How much do you think Gwindor's reveal of his name has to do with the ultimate fall of Nargothrond though? I think in this case Ulmo already knew Nargothrond was doomed - and it had served its purpose anyway; Finrod was already gone, and Beren had been saved.

Turin is blessed with prodigious gifts but not with the maturity to discipline them. Curse or no curse, that can doom anyone. (A certain Feanor comes to mind; Turin is his mortal counterpart.) True!
While Ulmo's prophecies generally seem to come from divine insight, the one about Nargothrond's danger with the bridge and open warfare is stating the obvious. Morgoth has already wiped out the grand alliance of Fingon and Maedhros. What was little Nargothrond supposed to do against him? (By comparison, Thingol felt he could win a war against Nargothrond but didn't think he could beat the Sons of Feanor, so Nargothrond was a relatively weak kingdom.) So true - its hope lay in concealment - but concealment didn't sit right with Turin (reminds me a little of the pride of Boromir, letting loose on the Horn when they leave - supposedly secretly - from Rivendell because he simply must declare himself and will not slink.)


Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.






Subject User Time
Sil discussion of Turin Turambar: Dragons and Vala Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 17 2013, 6:09pm
    The Mirror of the Dragon's eye. noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 17 2013, 9:24pm
        I have the same question Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 18 2013, 2:34am
    The swords that are brokenů noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 17 2013, 9:30pm
        You may have the long and the short of it there Furincurunir. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 18 2013, 2:37am
        A bone to pick with you about your Freudian analogy... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 4:12am
            Thorin's sword... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 10:54am
                Did someone say... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 11:13am
                Smelling salts too...oh you've got them. thanks...!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 1:23pm
                Dragon-spell Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 19 2013, 5:03pm
                    I wonder whether it belatedly affects Balin, & so contributes to the doomed Moria adventure? // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 9:23pm
                    JRRT does write of the power of gold that has long been dragon-brooded. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 11:44pm
            Hmmm.... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 2:27pm
                Figured you would catch that Elaen!! Hopefully it made you laugh. /// Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 3:29pm
    We may just be on the same Wavelength! Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 17 2013, 9:50pm
        More thoughts on the origin of dragons (I missed the edit window, drat) Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 17 2013, 10:05pm
        Fantastic points Rembrethil! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 18 2013, 3:34am
            Turin's Diary: A Chronicle of Sorrow Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 19 2013, 4:53am
                I agree - maybe that *should* be written! (Shaking a good idea.) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 1:14pm
    On the point of the sword... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 11:01am
        Bound in death. Nice // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 1:17pm
    Glaurung.. elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 2:37pm
        Dragon origins Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 3:38pm
            Cuddly dragon babies CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 5:39pm
                Ungoliant and Glaurung Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 6:14pm
                    It's safer CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 6:44pm
                        Not when you ARE the dinner though CG elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 7:04pm
                            I'm afraid that IS the case...! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 8:23pm
                The Flame Living fealoki Send a private message to fealoki Jul 20 2013, 8:42pm
                    ? Tureen elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 8:46pm
    Mirror, mirror, on the wall...and in the water...and in a dragon's eye CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 6:10pm
        Mirrors and swords! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 21 2013, 2:03am
    Ulmo and Turin CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 6:41pm
        Nargothrond and pride (more pride! Pride everywhere!) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 21 2013, 2:12am

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.