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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Backstory for the Necromancer *spoilers*
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Jul 17 2013, 1:00am

Post #26 of 30 (180 views)
Yes, they decided to make an extra film... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Knowing" PJ, he wants to shoot as much as possible... switching from GDT I guess was not a good deal for those who wanted just The Hobbit.



Jul 17 2013, 1:07am

Post #27 of 30 (172 views)
If there is a silver lining... [In reply to] Can't Post

It could be that, at least to me, PJ has demonstrated his ability to not have a battle in TH 'out-do' one from LOTR: Azanulbizar. In terms of scope, for me that battle felt like it was incredibly vast and extensive (hence Balin's emotion at the loss of life). But with the action shots, there was really only one extreme wide shot of the battle (swooping over the cliff as they ran away). And even that seemed like a very narrow glimpse into the entirety of the action. I thought we were given a very small glimpse into what was a very large event, scope-wise. I also feel that this scene, as a flashback, differentiates itself in this respect from the main 'battle flashback' of FOTR, too: Last Alliance. There, several extreme wide shots give the landscape a very "epic" feel to it, with many shots showing thousands upon thousands of soldiers on either side. I know we're talking about two different events, with different details differentiating them. But I just wanted to make that comparison, as it seems relevant.

I know Azanulbizar isn't a perfect example although it was a fairly large battle if I remember correctly. But my aim here is that, for those with this worry, PJ has demonstrated the ability to not dwarf the main battles of this franchise in ROTK. So maybe he will take a similar approach with the BoFA. Not saying he will, but based on AUJ it seems plausible to me. I know there are numerous factors...five of them, actually Wink...that make this battle harder to film. And add in that it is PJ's last big hoorah in ME.

Nonetheless, I just wanted to say that, in my eyes, there is a precedent here that could act as a silver lining for those with this concern.

Tol Eressea

Jul 17 2013, 1:42am

Post #28 of 30 (169 views)
I'm not entirely in agreement with your assessment... [In reply to] Can't Post

There weren't really any opportunities within the narrative of AUJ to dwarf the siege of Minas Tirith or the battle before the Black Gate. Yes, the closest thing was Azanulbizar, but that was a flashback that only lasted maybe 2 minutes tops.

My concern about the Bo5A is precisely that it's PJ's last ME hoorah, and knowing his propensity for OTT spectacle and the fact that he's not really overly conerned with sticking to canon. You have to remember that most of the armies that took part in the siege of Minas Tirith were omitted from the film. The Knights of Dol Amroth and the rest of Gondor's outlying army, Aragorn's Dunedain kinsmen (not exactly an army, but still), the Variags, the Troll-men, and the Easterlings were ALL omitted from the Battle of Pelennor Fields, because Jackson didn't have time to introduce all of them. Jackson doesn't have those constraints here with The Hobbit. He's making 3 films out of a 300-page book and 10 pages (at most) of Appendices material. Contrast that with LOTR, where we also got 3 films, but for a story more than three times the length of The Hobbit. The Bo5A is not going to spare any expense, and the rumors suggest we may see even more than just our 5 armies. Of course I can't say for certain, but I would put money down that the Bo5A will end up being the biggest and most spectacular battle out of all 6 films when all is said and done.

(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jul 17 2013, 1:43am)


Jul 17 2013, 2:01am

Post #29 of 30 (159 views)
I definitely see your concern there [In reply to] Can't Post

My rationale behind it is that the book, to me, really works to that final battle after Smaug's death. I don't see it as much of a skirmish, but of a grand--albeit slightly unexpected in its combatants--fight that was quite climactic for the story. Especially considering the certain individuals whose lives are lost in the end (avoiding spoilers). So I guess I would be on board with a certain degree of spectacle here. Not spectacle for spectacle's sake, but for creating a resounding climax to the journey.

I know this is all so subjective based one's comfortability with x,y, or z liberty being taken in the films. It is nice to hear everyone's opinions, as we all have a different take on things so rooted in our interpretations of the text. But at least this gives us something to talk about during these year-long gaps! Smile

And to your point about Minas Tirith- I'm in total agreement with you. I've always seen that part as a nightmare to consider filming, from this aspect. So many different groups that warrant an introduction, yet cannot due to time constraints. I struggle to grasp how PJ went through the pages back then, working out what would work best for his vision.

Edit: Sorry not to address the point about Minas Tirith being dwarfed by BoFA- I see your point about expansion vs. compression of story in each trilogy. That very well could lead to the chain of events you've described. I think it's a delicate situation. Perhaps he has filmed this battle in a way to focus more on the individuals taking part in it (mainly after the dwarves charge from the Mountain). But of course, there is also a lot that happens beforehand. So I totally understand what you're getting at here. I guess I just see more potential in it not happening. *Perhaps better to say 'not happening in a way that will upset me.'*

(This post was edited by cats16 on Jul 17 2013, 2:10am)


Jul 17 2013, 2:59pm

Post #30 of 30 (147 views)
Not sure [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember someone on the Production saying a few years back, that LotR really defined how battles were put on screen for all fantasy movies since, and that they would try to make it different somehow. I have no idea of the source, but I'm pretty sure PJ or GDT said this. If this is the case, the battle might be small scale, more focusing on the characters, or might just be different enough not to undermine LotR. And in the end, there are only so many characters that can be put on screen. if PJ had added more orcs on Pelennor Fields, it wouldn't have mattered much, I think. The army of mordor looked like an unstoppable force anyway. More soldiers wouldn't have made it more impressive.

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