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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will we see Sauron ???
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jul 11 2013, 1:25am

Post #26 of 36 (188 views)
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Sure about that? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
when they went to Dol Guldur he had already fled.


During the Council of Elrond, Gandalf relays that 'it was by the devices of Saruman that we drove him from Dol Guldur'.

That would imply that Sauron was driven off by the actions of the Council (specifically Saruman), not that he had vanished by the time the Council arrived (unless Gandalf was lying or mistaken, or there's an inconsistency that Tolkien never caught).


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jul 11 2013, 1:27am)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 11 2013, 1:06pm

Post #27 of 36 (157 views)
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At the same time, it is said that Sauron's flight was a ruse... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
when they went to Dol Guldur he had already fled.


During the Council of Elrond, Gandalf relays that 'it was by the devices of Saruman that we drove him from Dol Guldur'.

That would imply that Sauron was driven off by the actions of the Council (specifically Saruman), not that he had vanished by the time the Council arrived (unless Gandalf was lying or mistaken, or there's an inconsistency that Tolkien never caught).



However, Sauron had anticipated the Council's actions and had planned ahead for them. So, his withdrawal from Dol Guldur was a feight that did delay his plans in the short term, but also paved the way for his reoccupation of Mordor. My view is that Sauron did not withdraw before the arrival of the White Council, but only because he wanted them to think that he had been driven away by their own efforts.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jul 11 2013, 9:34pm

Post #28 of 36 (132 views)
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Yes, you're probably right concerning this... [In reply to] Can't Post


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My view is that Sauron did not withdraw before the arrival of the White Council, but only because he wanted them to think that he had been driven away by their own efforts.



dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2013, 10:44pm

Post #29 of 36 (133 views)
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It won't line up well anyway [In reply to] Can't Post


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"Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency."

- Saruman in PJ's FotR


Funny how nowhere in the history of Sauron Gandalf gives Frodo does he bother to mention that he just saw the guy 60 years ago during Bilbo's adventure. Funny how he's so shocked himself to learn that Sauron is regaining strength.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 11 2013, 11:08pm

Post #30 of 36 (130 views)
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just yet another [In reply to] Can't Post

inconsistency ...


ANother reason why this DG syuff could easy be left alone...i for one dont find it exciting.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jul 12 2013, 2:18am

Post #31 of 36 (117 views)
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Classic bait and switch [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2013, 12:53pm

Post #32 of 36 (83 views)
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beg your pardon? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unimpressed

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 12 2013, 8:10pm

Post #33 of 36 (67 views)
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The first rule of the White Council [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Funny how nowhere in the history of Sauron Gandalf gives Frodo does he bother to mention that he just saw the guy 60 years ago during Bilbo's adventure. Funny how he's so shocked himself to learn that Sauron is regaining strength.



You do not talk about the White Council. I assume that a bylaw of the White Council is that members do not speak of Council secrets in front of civilians. This also provides a rational for how Gandalf talks around specifics about the White Council when he discusses the Necromancer with Lord Elrond in Bilbo's presence in The Hobbit. Of course we really know that Tolkien hadn't yet fully developed the idea of the White Council yet, or Sauron's role in the end of the Third Age.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


KingTurgon
Rohan


Jul 14 2013, 12:25am

Post #34 of 36 (48 views)
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Love that model [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what I hope he looks like, it just fits.


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jul 14 2013, 3:11am

Post #35 of 36 (51 views)
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bait and switch [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron lures them in and then takes off to Mordor ... makes them expose thier intent while disguising his

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



Subaruman
Bree


Jul 14 2013, 12:08pm

Post #36 of 36 (75 views)
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I don't think Gandalf is ever surprised in Fellowship [In reply to] Can't Post

We the vewers actually learn about Sauron regaining strength from Gandalf explaining it to Frodo in Bag End at the beginning of FotR.

Gandalf:

No, Frodo. The spirit of Sauron has endured. His life force is bound to the ring and the ring survived. Sauron has returned. His Orcs have multiplied...his fortress of Barad- dur is rebuilt in the land of Mordor.

"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956

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