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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
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Elthir
Gondor

Jul 15 2013, 11:40pm


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I think even if a dwarf woman had only a cottony textured beard, as I said before, most of the other races wouldn't distinguish.




But Tolkien goes beyond this with his Dwarves in my opinion. Yes some men can be mistaken for women simply due to long hair, due to an expectation within a given culture, but that doesn't mean these men cannot be told apart from their women in other ways of course -- but Tolkien's Dwarf-women are indistinguishable from the Dwarf-men, excepting that they go not to war and seldom leave their halls and bowers.

Again, I think we can see into Tolkien's mind here with the Iluvatar example: Aule had made male Dwarves, Iluvatar therefore kept his design so much so that other peoples could not tell male from female apart -- so appearance includes beards, yes, but is not limited to beards, and thus I think not limited to simply being fooled by a woman with a beard.

Jackson's Dwarf-women are a perfect example to my mind -- they look like women with beards. But if that's what Tolkien had in mind why include voice, and even gait, and appearance in general? He could have easily written that Dwarf-women were sometimes mistaken for Dwarf-men because they were bearded, and that would leave the impression you seem to be describing...

... but Tolkien's Dwarf-women sound like Dwarf-men and even walk like Dwarf-men, and they look like Dwarf-men in general [not simply because they are bearded] so much that other races can't tell the difference. They might dress differently, but yet not if they travel in any case, so that won't work either... so along comes the false idea that there are no Dwarf-women.


'nor in any wise' can they be told apart [by other peoples] save that Dwarf-women go not to war and seldom leave their halls. To me that speaks to more than mistakes due to cultural expectations.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Jul 15 2013, 11:48pm)

Subject User Time
Why didn't the dwarf females have beards? Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Jul 9 2013, 1:01am
    Puzzled. arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jul 9 2013, 1:32am
    also Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 9 2013, 1:55am
    From memory, Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Jul 9 2013, 6:20am
        beards and books and badgers oh my Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Jul 9 2013, 5:48pm
    Gimli also says in that scene that some people think that there are no Dwarf women. Which is of course ridiculous. But there clearly are. emre43 Send a private message to emre43 Jul 9 2013, 6:51am
    3 hairy women for you DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 9 2013, 7:08am
        Phwoarrr!!!!!! emre43 Send a private message to emre43 Jul 9 2013, 8:39am
        Interesting ... Arandir Send a private message to Arandir Jul 9 2013, 12:36pm
    They did // dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Jul 9 2013, 9:13am
    Actually Lindele Send a private message to Lindele Jul 9 2013, 12:20pm
    Re: female Dwarf non-beards dik-dik Send a private message to dik-dik Jul 9 2013, 4:31pm
    The Hobbit Movie Source Book Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Jul 9 2013, 5:15pm
    I saw only one dwarf woman in the movie. RosieLass Send a private message to RosieLass Jul 9 2013, 6:09pm
    Question IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Jul 9 2013, 8:04pm
        There are a number of references DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 9 2013, 8:20pm
            references Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 9 2013, 8:45pm
                We've disagreed about this in the past DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 9 2013, 8:52pm
                    happy you found the exact quote Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 9 2013, 8:55pm
            War of the Beards Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Jul 10 2013, 7:55pm
                Oh and Gimli... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Jul 10 2013, 8:04pm
    DALE Retro315 Send a private message to Retro315 Jul 9 2013, 8:46pm
    To me marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Jul 9 2013, 11:32pm
        This glor Send a private message to glor Jul 13 2013, 7:59pm
            subject line marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Jul 14 2013, 6:16pm
                appearance Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Jul 15 2013, 11:40pm

 
 
 

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