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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
will the climax of "Desolation" be an invented action sequence with Smaug and the dwarves?
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entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2013, 9:53pm

Post #51 of 60 (135 views)
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He might have been conflating two different thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

I read that as Peter saying that, of the 125 pages of the Appendices, he has the rights to all of them to use in the Hobbit movies. That doesn't mean that all of it is related to the Hobbit, but he could potentially draw on all of it.


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jul 10 2013, 9:54pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2013, 9:59pm

Post #52 of 60 (123 views)
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I think this is what I'm trying to get at (and say ... not very well). / [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the link Eleniel. Smile

Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.




entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2013, 10:14pm

Post #53 of 60 (126 views)
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I think his thought process was [In reply to] Can't Post

1, There are 125 pages of the Appendices after ROTK.
2. I'm making a Hobbit movie and I have the rights to use all the Appendices material.

That came out as "There are 125 pages of Hobbit material in the Appendices.

Easy mistake to make when you've been living and breathing The Hobbit for several years. From his perspective, everything Tolkien is related to The Hobbit at this point, but that doesn't mean he's going to jam unrelated material into the movie just because he can. Peter goes on to say the the story is paramount. He will use what material is relevant, but not everything.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2013, 10:26pm

Post #54 of 60 (125 views)
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So now we have to be mind readers for PJ so that we can tell he doesn't mean what he says?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Peter clearly says, verbatim, "There are 125 pages of Hobbit-related material in the Appendices at the end of Return of the King."

He has also said this in countless interviews - here is another article quoting him in more detail:

http://www.uproxx.com/...y-talks-accelerated/



Quote





“That goes back to JRR Tolkien writing The Hobbit first, for
children, and only after did he develop his mythology much more over the 16 or
17 years later when The Lord of the Rings came out, which is way more
epic and mythic and serious. What people have to realize is we’ve adapted
The Hobbit, plus taken this additional 125 pages of notes, that’s what
you’d call them. Because Tolkien himself was planning the rewrite The
Hobbit
after The Lord of the Rings, to make it speak to the story
of The Lord of the Rings much more. In the novel, Gandalf disappears
for various patches of time. In 1936, when Tolkien was writing that book, he
didn’t have a clue what Gandalf was doing. But later on, when he did The
Lord of the Rings
and he’d hit on this whole epic story, he was going to
go back and revise The Hobbit and he wrote all these notes about how
Gandalf disappears and was really investigating the possible return of Sauron,
the villain from The Lord of the Rings. Sauron doesn’t appear at all
in The Hobbit. Tolkien was retrospectively fitting The Hobbit
to embrace that mythology. He never wrote that book, but there are 125 pages of
notes published at the back of Return of the King in one of the later
editions. It was called The Appendices, and they are essentially his expanded
Hobbit notes. So we had the rights to those as well and were allowed to use
them.” Said Jackson: “We haven’t just adapted The Hobbit; we’ve
adapted that book plus great chunks of his appendices and woven it all
together. The movie explains where Gandalf goes; the book never does. We’ve
explained it using Tolkien’s own notes. That helped inform the tone of the
movie, because it allowed us to pull in material he wrote in The Lord of
the Rings
era and incorporate it with The Hobbit.”



"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2013, 10:39pm

Post #55 of 60 (122 views)
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But, to me, I still read that as: [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
1) What people have to realize is we’ve adapted
The Hobbit, plus taken this additional 125 pages of notes, that’s what you’d call them.


Me: There are 125 pages of additional information at the end of the book.


Quote
2) He never wrote that book, but there are 125 pages of
notes published at the back of Return of the King in one of the later editions. It was called The Appendices, and they are essentially his expanded Hobbit notes.


Me: The 125 pages are Tolkien's notes of additional information. Admittedly, he only says of The Hobbit. However ...


Quote
3) “We haven’t just adapted The Hobbit; we’ve
adapted that book plus great chunks of his appendices and woven it all together.


Out of those 125 pages, some chunks relate to the events of The Hobbit, so they have been adapted for the films.

That's what I get from that article. And since the article is aimed at general movie-goers, I also think that's the message he was trying to get across. I appreciate that it can be read and interpreted differently. Is it mind reading? No, but it does involve careful reading. Do we (as Tolkien fans) interpret it differently because we know it could be said with greater accuracy? Absolutely! We're supposed to be pernickety, but doesn't mean he's wrong (or right). Wink

Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.




(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jul 10 2013, 10:45pm)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2013, 10:46pm

Post #56 of 60 (108 views)
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No, but we're just having fun here, [In reply to] Can't Post

and we all have our own opinion of what he meant. None of us is right or wrong, and your conclusions are just as valid as mine. I was offering my interpretation of what Peter said, which is not the same as your interpretation. We will probably never know what he really meant.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2013, 10:57pm

Post #57 of 60 (116 views)
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I'm not deliberately PJ bashing here... [In reply to] Can't Post

I simply feel very strongly about the way I see him as giving out misleading information. Either it's wilful or simply inadvertent because he's got his facts (or thought process) muddled...

Perhaps he needs a scriptwriter? AngelicWink


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Jul 10 2013, 10:58pm)


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2013, 11:05pm

Post #58 of 60 (107 views)
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But Daniel, that is exactly the point... [In reply to] Can't Post

WE know that only 11 or 12 pages relate to The Hobbit, so we (some of us) can assume PJ is really meaning just that portion.

The average movie goer/non-Tolkien geek WILL NOT know, and from PJ's wording will assume that all 125 are relevant to The Hobbit.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jul 11 2013, 1:37am

Post #59 of 60 (97 views)
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In this case... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
From that, they're are taking *some* of the information and *adapting* it for the films.


"Adapting" seems to be equal to "re-writing"...IMO of course...


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 11 2013, 3:06am

Post #60 of 60 (107 views)
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exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

Jackson is more content to rewrite the material rather than adapt it IMO.

Why? Hmmmm maybe because the stuff he makes up is his own made up material and not Tolkien's... Personally Jackson should have hired someone else to write the script... someone who actually cared about the story of the Hobbit, and not cared about what they could make it... Just my opinion though Tongue

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