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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
BOFA Pacing

Flame of Udun
Rivendell


Jun 28 2013, 3:58pm

Post #1 of 12 (710 views)
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BOFA Pacing Can't Post

Based on what we've seen in TTT and ROTK, Peter Jackson has intertwined slower paced (but still exciting) scenes (Treebeard, Shelob's Lair etc.) with the battle sequences in order to give us a breather from the bloodshed. However, since the battle of five armies is going to take much longer in the movie than in the book, what sort of scenes (if any) would give us this break from the battle?

"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand. What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.''


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 28 2013, 4:06pm

Post #2 of 12 (402 views)
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At this point, there shouldn't be anything else of note taking place... [In reply to] Can't Post

SPOILERS AWAY!

Smaug should be no more. Gandalf should be present at the battle, so the Necromancer should be dealt with. The Eagles and Beorn shouldn't be foreshadowed during the fight. In my opinion, Thorin's entrance should be a surprise. Other than reaction shots of Bilbo, I can't think of much to break away to.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Jun 28 2013, 4:08pm

Post #3 of 12 (391 views)
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Maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

Brief counsel between leaders; Thranduil, Gandalf, Bard, etc., during the battle's progression. Also, initially what Thorin and co. are doing in preparation inside the mountain. This would provide some character moments and the necessary breaks.


Lindele
Gondor


Jun 28 2013, 4:59pm

Post #4 of 12 (348 views)
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This would be a good opportunity [In reply to] Can't Post

to explore the childhood of Theoden


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 28 2013, 5:02pm

Post #5 of 12 (304 views)
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Hear hear! [In reply to] Can't Post

Too long has his infancy remained in the shadows...

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Rostron2
Gondor


Jun 28 2013, 5:15pm

Post #6 of 12 (309 views)
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The battle itself [In reply to] Can't Post

The battle itself is very distinctly separated into phases that could offer brief respites in themselves.

1. You have the final hurried council and laying of the defenses
2. The initial skirmishes
3. The main attack and counterattacks from the defenses
4. Goblins flank the mountain defenses
5. The general action, Thorin wounded, Beorn appears, Bolg and/or goblin commanders are killed, eagles arrive, etc.

Now the one thing I pretty sure will change is that I think we'll see Thorin in the action much earlier than described in the book. There's no way to resist the cinematic need to have one of your main character missing for 3/4ths of the action. So, all of the above is based off of the book, so it's pure conjecture.

Although it fits with his feud with the other allies, I won't mind if they change this to have him involved sooner, with more dwarves at his back. The book description always seemed a little odd to have a dozen dwarves all by themselves charge into a battle with thousand on the field. Yes, they're great warriors, but it's not like there's twelve superheros involved. Yes, they were joined by others, but it's not like he's leading even a hundred dwarves out of the Great Gate. If a dozen dwarves do a suicide charge to take out Bolg and senior goblin commanders, that's one thing. I don't see Thorin interested in a banzai charge except when all seems lost (#4)

I'm really interested to see what the scope and sizing of this action will be. Will it seem like a massive action? Counting up the book numbers, it could be less than 3000 good guys against maybe 10K goblins that are lousy quality. It's not really the scale of Minas Tirith, but it could be made to seem so.


Skaan
Lorien


Jun 28 2013, 6:03pm

Post #7 of 12 (245 views)
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The Eagles [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually think the Eagles should get some foreshadowing this time. Like perhaps we'll see them recieving the message from the moth. Or we see them taking notice of the battle and flying towards it, rather than just having them appear out of nowhere again like all the previous moments we've seen the Eagles come to the rescue. This could also give them a bit more character (without them necessarily talking) rather than them being ME's rescue team. I just think they should get a different entry this time in order to not make people think "Oh look, it's the Eagles out of nowhere again"

I agree about Beorn though, he should just BE there. No foreshadowing or anything required, just Beorn suddenly being there (similar to Gandalf at Helm's Deep) and going all shock and awe on the orcs.


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Jun 28 2013, 6:30pm

Post #8 of 12 (235 views)
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On Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this should be as close to the book as possible. Tolkien was famous for sudden victory from the jaws of defeat and Beorn was certainly a deus ex machina in the BoFA. I hope he comes at the last stage with complete shock and awe.


DuBekar
Rivendell


Jun 28 2013, 6:52pm

Post #9 of 12 (241 views)
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Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually don't care when Beorn comes into the battle, i just want him to be big as F*CK like in the book, wow.

I want him to be like this!

http://moviezine.se/...es/2011/01/beorn.jpg

" Why, O people of Noldor! Fëanor cried. Why should we longer serve the jealous Valar, who cannot keep us nor even their own realm secure from their enemy? And though he be now their foe, are not they and he of one kin? Vengence calls me hence, but even were it otherwise I would not dwell longer in the same land with the kin of my father's slayer and of the thief of treasure. Yet i am not the only valiant in this valiant people. And have ye not all lost your King? And what else have ye not lost, cooped here in a narrow land between the mountains and the sea? Here once was light, that the Valar begrudged to middle-earth, but now dark levels all. Shall we mourn here deedless forever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea? Or shall we return to our home? In cuiviènen sweet ran the waters under uncloaded stars, and wide lands lay about, where a free people might walk. There they lie still and await us who in out folly forsook them. Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!"


Rostron2
Gondor


Jun 28 2013, 8:40pm

Post #10 of 12 (181 views)
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Life Size [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, agreed. He can just suddenly appear like the biggest badass grizzly. He doesn't really have to be supernatural sized, like Hulk or something, he just needs to be big. Goblins are smaller, after all, so he would dwarf them (no pun intended) at ten feet.


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Jun 28 2013, 8:49pm

Post #11 of 12 (176 views)
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Love that picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, something like this would be perfect for Beorn. What we saw in the trailer indicated something massive.


(This post was edited by AncalagontheBlack on Jun 28 2013, 8:49pm)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 30 2013, 8:33am

Post #12 of 12 (51 views)
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The actual attack [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The battle itself is very distinctly separated into phases that could offer brief respites in themselves.

1. You have the final hurried council and laying of the defenses
2. The initial skirmishes
3. The main attack and counterattacks from the defenses
4. Goblins flank the mountain defenses
5. The general action, Thorin wounded, Beorn appears, Bolg and/or goblin commanders are killed, eagles arrive, etc.

Now the one thing I pretty sure will change is that I think we'll see Thorin in the action much earlier than described in the book. There's no way to resist the cinematic need to have one of your main character missing for 3/4ths of the action. So, all of the above is based off of the book, so it's pure conjecture.

Although it fits with his feud with the other allies, I won't mind if they change this to have him involved sooner, with more dwarves at his back. The book description always seemed a little odd to have a dozen dwarves all by themselves charge into a battle with thousand on the field. Yes, they're great warriors, but it's not like there's twelve superheros involved. Yes, they were joined by others, but it's not like he's leading even a hundred dwarves out of the Great Gate. If a dozen dwarves do a suicide charge to take out Bolg and senior goblin commanders, that's one thing. I don't see Thorin interested in a banzai charge except when all seems lost (#4)

I'm really interested to see what the scope and sizing of this action will be. Will it seem like a massive action? Counting up the book numbers, it could be less than 3000 good guys against maybe 10K goblins that are lousy quality. It's not really the scale of Minas Tirith, but it could be made to seem so.



I agree and the actual attack will be in 4 stages

The bats to darken the skies
The warg riders come howling in like banshees
The goblin horde comes into the vale in a frenzied mass goblin wave attack
Bolg and his big bad bodyguard and the goblins scaling up the back of the mountain

Wiki estimated 1000 elves, 300 laketown men, and 500 heavily armed and armored dwarves, many veterans of the dwarf/goblin wars vs 6000 to 15000 goblins and wargs.

What does this resemble? Tolkien was most definately a student of history, perhaps it was his Middle Earth version of Thermopylae???


“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

 
 

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