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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What does Jackson mean with Bolg being the "spawn " of Azog?


Jun 28 2013, 12:39pm

Post #1 of 11 (812 views)
What does Jackson mean with Bolg being the "spawn " of Azog? Can't Post

hey all,
just curious as to what he might be reffering to in this statement. Bolg is the son of Azog but Jackson apparently says he is the spawn of AAzog. Does this mean that he laid eggs and Bolg happened to be one that hached? (yes im being stupid)
anyway what do you think is the meaning of this spawn of Azog? I hope it is in terms of Bolg being the natural son of Azog, as he is.

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Jun 28 2013, 12:50pm

Post #2 of 11 (482 views)
Hmmm- how to explain this one on a family friendly site??!! [In reply to] Can't Post

the word spawn can be either a noun or a verb- it basically means offspring of- although it some cases, it can mean eggs or "seed" as in frogs etc
As a verb one could say "Azog spawned Bolg"- ie he engendered or begat Bolg (with some delightful orc-lady no doubt). One also sees the word in other contexts such as "spawn of Satan"- ie offspring of the Devil- of some evil person, or in other sci fi/fantasy settings it can be used to mean an evil brood of beings/monsters.
So, when PJ says Bolg is the spawn of Azog- he's basically just saying that Azog is Bolg's dad, not that Bolg was necessarily "made" in some unusual fashion (tho who knows in the movieverse), rather that he was engendered in a presumably, non-romantic fashion

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"

The Shire

Jun 28 2013, 1:09pm

Post #3 of 11 (416 views)
Asexual Reproduction [In reply to] Can't Post

He's a perfect genetic copy that doesn't look anything like his daddy.

It doesn't have to make sense! It just has to be a cool project for Weta.


Jun 28 2013, 1:35pm

Post #4 of 11 (373 views)
Yes, he means that Bolg is Azog's son... [In reply to] Can't Post

Presumably, Bolg had a mother as well, but she-Orcs get less mention in Tolkien's legendarium than even Dwarf-women.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Jun 28 2013, 1:45pm

Post #5 of 11 (350 views)
If Dragons Can Do It, Orcs Can Do It Too [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually Bolg could have been produced through asexual reproduction via parthenogenesis and still be a male-- dragons can do it and produce males.
See this Link for details.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.


Jun 28 2013, 3:23pm

Post #6 of 11 (262 views)
Maybe that their relationship involves more nature than nurture // [In reply to] Can't Post



Jun 29 2013, 7:05am

Post #7 of 11 (134 views)
I've said before, Bolg's mother may not even have been an orc. This would [In reply to] Can't Post

explain his (and Azog's) size and intellect. Saruman bred orcs with humans, but he wasn't the first to do it, and orcs, being very savage, were also capable of managing it on their own.

In Reply To
Presumably, Bolg had a mother as well, but she-Orcs get less mention in Tolkien's legendarium than even Dwarf-women.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Jun 29 2013, 11:54am

Post #8 of 11 (110 views)
Honestly, it seems a bit pointless to speculate much about Bolg's mother... [In reply to] Can't Post

Applying the principle of Occam's Razor, it is most likely that she was an Orc-female. Anything else is pure speculation.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

Grey Havens

Jun 29 2013, 1:43pm

Post #9 of 11 (98 views)
Are Orcs deficient in intellect? [In reply to] Can't Post

My recollection of descriptions of them includes that they are quite clever at devising weapons, torture devices, and engines of war (this would be from descriptions of the Goblins of the Misty Mountains in the scenes of "The Hobbit" where the Company is captured by them). So personally I would attribute their lack of what we might call "high culture" not to lack of intellect, but to lack of interest in such. So the fact that Azog speaks speeches of more than a sentence at a time (in his native language), and makes reasonable if not amazingly complex deductions (like looking for the trail of the Dwarves in the Mountains to the East of Rivendell after they escape one of Azog's parties) does not strike me as proof that he is an intellectual giant of his kind whose exceptional mental gifts indicate he must have Man or Elf blood via his recent maternal ancestry. Is he of above average intelligence for a Goblin? Sure, that's plausible. And also not surprising - that along with his unusual size and strength are likely the reasons he is a leader among his people.

I'd also guess the movies will not go there. Jackson's ME films get their PG-13 ratings entirely due to violence, not language or "adult themes".

As an aside, this is a reason Barry Humphries' somewhat suave, and self-consciously stagey, Goblin King also worked for me.


Jun 30 2013, 2:14am

Post #10 of 11 (76 views)
PJ's Exact Words [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's the Empire magazine snippet regarding this, including PJ's statement:

And Bolg is actually the son of Azog. "I should say orc spawn," Jackson hastily corrects himself when when Empire enquires if there is such a thing as female orcs. "Philippa is the expert on orc reproduction."

This is pretty vague but I hope we don't see the return of the Isengard mud pit thing. Unsure :: points to signature :: Tolkien himself confirmed that there are Orc women so I don't see a reason why the filmmakers would deny it (if they are indeed doing so).

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Jun 30 2013, 5:24am

Post #11 of 11 (65 views)
Spawn is derogatory [In reply to] Can't Post

In my opinion whereas fathered would be a nicer way to put it, ie Azog was the biological father but not a father to Bolg if that makes sense?

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

(This post was edited by Yngwulff on Jun 30 2013, 5:24am)


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