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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elijah Wood confirms he won't be appearing in the forthcoming films
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Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 1:32pm

Post #51 of 67 (277 views)
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Same Here...if they had Not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Some people would have Been
Screamin.."Why? No Frodo?"

Bomby got real comfort from that.


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Jun 27 2013, 4:10pm

Post #52 of 67 (265 views)
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Well, that's the thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Any impatience over the rumors regarding the handling
of DoS and TaBa stems from the little head-scratchers
in AUJ. Granted, AUJ may turn out to have some very good
scenes. As a whole though, I fear that -- despite certain viewings --
AUJ will be contingent on where and how DoS and TaBa play.

Truly, this story must be in good hands, right? Where is the discretion
in the Frodo/Bilbo prologue? It's an interesting and exciting proposition,
but who is critiquing the actual scene? This was the final cut after
the critical analysis? How many people might be involved in lending their
opinions on particular scenes? I don't know how the scene made it through
in its particular style.

The 'silent hand' is missing, unfortunately, and an artist's stamp is
attached to the narrative, which possibly comprimises a narrative,
seemingly unnecessarily, because the story goes where one wants
it to go, rather than where it goes. How much of the Hobbit is able
to tell itself?

I don't mind the inclusion of old Bilbo and Frodo, but I just think the style
was weird in the context of AUJ alone. It's too framed, too forced and nobody
attached to the film seems to agree, otherwise how did the scene make it like so?
This might be the root of some ambivalence regarding some aspects of DoS and TaBa.
Though, I think this style will please many people and that's what matters is that they enjoy
it.

That said, I like aspects of this portion of the prologue. I enjoy the contrast in times, the juxtaposition
of erebor/smaug severity and the serenity and comfort of far-removed Shire. I like the writing and
reminiscing in the peaceful morning. Some of it though, seems better for the EE. Just an opinion.


(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on Jun 27 2013, 4:15pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 27 2013, 6:59pm

Post #53 of 67 (222 views)
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We don't need any more narration [In reply to] Can't Post

And I just don't want to see old Bilbo again. And I don't like the idea of making the Hobbit segue into LOTR like that because it implies that the story is only a set up for LOTR. I don't like that.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 27 2013, 7:02pm

Post #54 of 67 (217 views)
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Could have been done [In reply to] Can't Post

any other number of ways without stopping the flow of the film.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 27 2013, 7:04pm

Post #55 of 67 (222 views)
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Why would they do that? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why would anyone be screaming about there being no Frodo? This is a completely different story about a different character. Frodo is nowhere to be found in the book, and he certainly wasn't needed in the film. He didn't add anything to the story. He was there purely as fan-service.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Jun 27 2013, 7:11pm

Post #56 of 67 (210 views)
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Well I see your point but [In reply to] Can't Post

Showing a little more of very old Bilbo in Rivendell (without Frodo or any LOTR character) would be a nice ending. After all it is HIS story which he begins writing in Hobbiton (we've seen that in AUJ) and which he finishss in Rivendell. A narrator has to OPEN and the CLOSE a play, film, story. If not they shouldn't have used him earlier.

And if you look at LOTR: It opens with Galadriels prologue from the history of Middle-earth that it continues with Bilbo writing his story and in the end it finishes with Frodo (as a voiceover) telling the end of the story (which he wrote after all). So why not in the Hobbit which IS basicly based on Bilbos writing? I'm 99% sure that there will be a kind of narration text in the end. Perhaps it begins with Martin Freeman but Ian Holm will play a part in it.. although it might be a voiceover like Frodos.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 27 2013, 7:20pm

Post #57 of 67 (210 views)
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Framing/narration [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right, of course, that this is Bilbo's story. My problem, though, is that Jackson is too focused on making Bilbo's story only some sort of lesser prequel to his LOTR trilogy. It's the way that it's being done that I have a problem with.

In my ideal world, Ian Holm would have narrated the prologue, but we would not have seen him, and he would have no other narration throughout the films. This way, he simply becomes the narrator of this story, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't even have to be made evident that he's an older Bilbo who is writing down his story. Leave all that out - The Hobbit doesn't need it. But then, when watching LOTR after seeing TH, the audience would make the connection that the narrator is the same character as Old Bilbo who is writing his story.

This allows for TH to remain it's own story independent of the previous trilogy while also tying in nicely. As it is right now, Frodo's inclusion makes no sense unless you've seen LOTR. I wish that that was not so.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Danielos
Rohan

Jun 27 2013, 7:31pm

Post #58 of 67 (228 views)
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Last scene with Ian Holm! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the last scene in the third movie should be Old Bilbo hearing a knock on the door. He says his "No thank you!"-line, then hears Gandalf "What about very old friends?"and opens the door. Last shot is seeing the open door from inside Bag End and hearing same lines repeated from FOTR with a big white "THE END" on screen. Fade to black!


(This post was edited by Danielos on Jun 27 2013, 7:37pm)


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 27 2013, 8:26pm

Post #59 of 67 (192 views)
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I have to agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

Because for me it did too. Though I can imagine a somewhat different (shorter? Frodo-free?) version of it working better for me. Old Bilbo narrates the Prologue, we see him briefly after (along with some of the same props, perhaps) writing/narrating about Hobbits and his young self in Bag End. Scene ends when he goes outside for a nice smoke, and we get the same transition.

But the people who decided to put the scene, as shot and cut, into the film and take out other possible scenes that were filmed (and may be in the EE) most likely did not do it thinking they were stopping the flow of the film. Without addressing the success of their approach, the opening before the title introduced the Dwarves and Bilbo, which are reasonable goals for a prologue sequence for "The Hobbit" to achieve.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 27 2013, 8:53pm

Post #60 of 67 (183 views)
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Prologue vs. framing device [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, I don't have a clue whether or not PJ thinks the scene brings the film to a grinding halt, but I think it does, and it's not the only scene to do so, IMO. Azanulbizar does the same, I think.

I think the prologue with the history of Erebor and it's fall was done pretty well, and I don't have much problem with it. I even like Ian Holm narrating it. I just don't like the decision to show him and even worse, to show Frodo. But I guess it's all water under the bridge now, and I'll not keep harping on it (unless you have any other points to bring up Smile).

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 28 2013, 12:04pm

Post #61 of 67 (152 views)
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ok I have to admit [In reply to] Can't Post

that when I heard that Frodo was to be in the intro, I was quite happy to see him again.
BUT when I actually did see him it was very weird and disappointing. If they had used technological wizardry to make him look the same age he was in LOTR I wouldnt have minded so much. But he was just creepy looking, those chiselled cheekbones looked really off, and his wig looked strange too. (mind you old Bilbos wig is off too, and I find Galadriels wig to be very unflattering) so yes I am glad he isnt in any further scenes, it look me out of the moment.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 28 2013, 12:07pm)


Noria
Rohan

Jun 28 2013, 3:37pm

Post #62 of 67 (130 views)
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Frodo's purpose has been served. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that Frodo's presence in the prologue had a definite purpose and having served that purpose he’s no longer needed.

IMO Frodo was there not for Hobbit book fans but for the benefit of casual fans who've seen LotR but aren’t familiar with The Hobbit. He was there to catch their interest (fan service if you will), to help bring them back into PJ's Middle Earth and also to make it clear that Bilbo’s story takes place before Frodo's journey starts, in fact long before. I didn't need any of that.

So while I loved the prologue to AUJ, I could have done without Frodo. I didn't object to him but he didn't add anything for me and I would have been happy with just Old Bilbo.

I barely noticed and didn't worry about the differences in the actors’s appearances. Time marches on and make-up can only do so much.


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Jun 28 2013, 4:34pm

Post #63 of 67 (122 views)
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I don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if anyone would be screaming, why no Frodo? But I do think if they had not done it, many would have thought it a lost opportunity. They are two different stories but they are both set within the same fictional world. A mythical pre history that Tolkien created richer and more detailed than any other work of fiction and the two stories share certain characters.

These two movie franchises utilize the same actors between both and mirrors the books in that way adding to the shared universe feeling. Some people liked it and some didn't but there is definitely a rational logic to having that sort of flashback and tying together the LotR and The Hobbit movies.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 29 2013, 6:34pm

Post #64 of 67 (94 views)
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Sharing characters [In reply to] Can't Post

Right, they already share certain characters. So adding in another one that doesn't add anything to the movie was something I didn't like. The focus should have been on introducing our new main character rather than reminding the audience of the former main character.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 29 2013, 10:31pm

Post #65 of 67 (91 views)
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I think all the unecessary Frodo stuff [In reply to] Can't Post

added to the chugging start of the film, it didnt seem to get going for ages. we got all the Erebor Dale Smaug stuff with a bit of Thranduil thrown in for good measure and Bilbo Frodo stuff, chug chug. I would have started with Martin Freeman puffing on his pipe. and cut old bilbo and Frodo, its just to much of a cozy tie in to LOTR. whats wrong with starting at the beginning. they could have always used flashbacks later on.


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 30 2013, 12:41am

Post #66 of 67 (69 views)
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The start [In reply to] Can't Post

Was fine I thought. For me personally they started it perfectly giving you the intro in what Bilbo was writing in the Red Book plus some great flashback, I love the start of the movie.



Fichtenbrenner
The Shire


Jul 7 2013, 9:25pm

Post #67 of 67 (44 views)
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yes, it was a bad idea to include this scene [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
that when I heard that Frodo was to be in the intro, I was quite happy to see him again.
BUT when I actually did see him it was very weird and disappointing. If they had used technological wizardry to make him look the same age he was in LOTR I wouldnt have minded so much. But he was just creepy looking, those chiselled cheekbones looked really off, and his wig looked strange too. (mind you old Bilbos wig is off too, and I find Galadriels wig to be very unflattering) so yes I am glad he isnt in any further scenes, it look me out of the moment.

I have to agree with you. Both looked significantly older than in the LotR-trilogy. With the young Elijah Wood in 1999, when they began shooting the film, they clearly decided to have a youngish Frodo, who still has some some babyfat - by letting him return more than 10 years later, they actually withdraw their own decision. Unimpressed Ian Holm - as much as I like him in varous roles - appeared to be so old and weary in AUJ that the contrast to him in FotR with this much more vital personality is really big.

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