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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
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dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 4:06pm

Post #51 of 58 (121 views)
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Hmmm..... [In reply to] Can't Post


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Your second paragraph is well-reasoned, actually. . .


Thanks - I think....


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. . .except it does not take into account the understanding that for the plethora of critics of sequences like Goblin Town or The Anger Hug, any thought that it represents a superior film appears as denial and fanboy to them.


So... anyone who disagrees with said critics (including, presumably, yourself?) and has the temerity to enjoy the scenes those critics dislike, must either be in denial, or be unthinking/juvenile/immature? Agreement is the only proof of intelligence? Thanks for spelling it out so clearly, I think you've made my point rather well.


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This, just as much as the critics and speculations appear ungracious to you.


Yes, it does. Any thinking adult should be able to accept the validity of views other than their own, and to treat the people who hold those views with respect.



dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 4:27pm

Post #52 of 58 (119 views)
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The clue is in the word 'seems'... [In reply to] Can't Post


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Like Michale Bay seems to be interested in pandering to certain demographics or certain audiences by builiding terrible popcorn flicks. Is it an unreasonable to assume thats what he s interested in, rather than alternative artsy filmmaking depicting the social complexities of the primitive tribes of the bushmen in Namibia?


I haven't a clue who Michale Bay is, or what films he makes, or the significance of your remark about bushmen, but what I do pick up from your comment is the jump from 'he seems to be interested' to 'Is it unreasonable to assume. . .' That's precisely what I'm talking about. The word 'seems' implies that this is an external impression you've formed based on your dislike of the man's films. What I'm saying to you is yes, it is most definitely unreasonable to make assumptions about a person you don't know, based on your very negative reaction to his films (or for that matter his socks, his hairdo or any other thing about him) and then announce your assumption as objective fact - much less to go on from that to doubt the sincerity or intelligence of anyone who disagrees.



JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 22 2013, 4:37pm

Post #53 of 58 (120 views)
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Consistency [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Any thinking adult should be able to accept the validity of views other than their own, and to treat the people who hold those views with respect.


From my perspective, I believe the subtext of this statement to be inconsistent or in conflict with the values you espouse. But at face value, I agree with it.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 22 2013, 4:42pm)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 22 2013, 5:06pm

Post #54 of 58 (108 views)
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PS [In reply to] Can't Post

To be clear, I think I should add that I was making the objective argument that both points of view could be equally fair or unfair, but that understanding them is paramount.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 5:28pm

Post #55 of 58 (101 views)
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So now I'm being insincere in claiming values I don't espouse? [In reply to] Can't Post

At this point I give up, JWP. If you know more about my values than I do then there's really no more I can say.

I simply leave it to anyone else reading this - if anyone else if reading now it has slipped down to the second page - to form their own conclusions, whatever they may be.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 22 2013, 5:49pm

Post #56 of 58 (91 views)
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Not At All [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course you have those values. I trust that you write of them - espouse them - because you have them.

I'm saying that text like "thinking adults" creates a subtext that does not give credit to critics as thinking adults, or that text like "treat the people who hold those views with respect" should be offered also to views that oppose your own, with the understanding of why they might think differently without assuming it comes from disrespect. Like I said - objectively, good people can do a bad job sometimes.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 22 2013, 5:54pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 10:48pm

Post #57 of 58 (67 views)
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He meant 'Michael Bay' [In reply to] Can't Post

Hollywood director who is obsessed with extensive chase scenes and 'splosions(!). See Armageddon, Pearl Harbor, The Island, Transformers, etc. A James Cameron wannabee who definitely favors style over substance.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 23 2013, 10:31am

Post #58 of 58 (100 views)
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I still wouldn't have heard of him.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not my kind of thing - but thanks for the explanation

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