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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will we at some point get to see something of what GdT's vision of TH would have looked like?
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Rostron2
Gondor


Jun 18 2013, 8:43pm

Post #26 of 40 (201 views)
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We'll never really know [In reply to] Can't Post

And GdT's physics would probably be just as open to criticism.


glor
Rohan

Jun 18 2013, 10:26pm

Post #27 of 40 (180 views)
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Lovejoy [In reply to] Can't Post

Is the name of the McShane Tv series.

There are interviews out there with GDT talking about the Hobbit where he mentions casting; yes he mentions McShane and Blessed but GDT also mentions looking at BBC classic novel adaptations too for casting possibilities and specifically mentions Elizabeth Gaskell adaptations.

I doubt whether we anything visual will be released with regards to GDT's work on TH however, I would love to know what if anything of GDT's work has remained in the films, including the casting afterall, we already know about Freeman and MCCoy as GDT choices.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 18 2013, 10:34pm

Post #28 of 40 (169 views)
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Ah, yes, thank you. [In reply to] Can't Post

It was indeed Lovejoy.

The Elizabeth Gaskell adaptation was North and South, in which Richard Armitage excelled, in the view of many. Much better than anything that McShane has ever done…


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 18 2013, 10:39pm

Post #29 of 40 (170 views)
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Mcshane might not have been a great Thorin on screen, but he as Blackbeard as Pirates of the Carribean 4 is Exactly how I pictured Thorin in The Hobbit book [In reply to] Can't Post

Not in personalilty terms just visually-hardbitten, late middel age, rugged, grim, kingly and yes with a longer beard. I still think Billy Connoly as Dain, and Richard Armitage as Thorin could have swapped roles and matched there portrayl in Tolkiens books better.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 18 2013, 10:47pm

Post #30 of 40 (176 views)
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Well, I disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought Richard Armitage was perfect and a delight to watch in the role (as did other people I know who have seen the film).

In fact, I never had a very clear idea of Thorin from Tolkien's description in The Hobbit, except as a vaguely grim figure that is not very well drawn – and for some reason I always imagined him with long dark hair.

But then I don't rate Ian McShane highly as an actor and I could never see him in the role because of the television work I associate him with.


glor
Rohan

Jun 18 2013, 11:02pm

Post #31 of 40 (164 views)
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Yeah.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just pointing out that 'BBC Gaskell adaptations' were mentioned by GDT too in relation to casting..


glor
Rohan

Jun 18 2013, 11:07pm

Post #32 of 40 (171 views)
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yes but.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I read the Hobbit when I was 8 years old, in fact I read it numerous times before I hit my teens.

At 8 my Grandfather was old, as was my ex army neighbour, both men were one's I considered old when reading the Hobbit, my grandfather was 49 and my neighbour was in his late 30s/early 40s.

Old is a relative term, of course now being 45 years old I do not consider those in their late 30s and 40s to be old but many of the teenagers and young adults I work with consider me old at 45.


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 20 2013, 3:50am

Post #33 of 40 (134 views)
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Armitage vs McShane [In reply to] Can't Post

That Armitage was picked for his looks/sex appeal is very obvious to me, but I think McShane would have been a better Thorin as per the book.

GDTs version would have been closer to the book and more than likely just 2 films ... as it should have been. I think people would have been more happy with his version.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
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Passagas the Brown
The Shire

Jun 20 2013, 4:49am

Post #34 of 40 (111 views)
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Disagreed [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a difference between a more "child-like" tone, and an "adolescent" tone.

Tolkien gave us a children's version of the Hobbit, and PJ gave us a modern-day sugar-rush adolescent version.

Almost none of his excesses are justified by the source material, IMO.


Passagas the Brown
The Shire

Jun 20 2013, 4:56am

Post #35 of 40 (110 views)
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Speaking of which [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO, the Game of Thrones people have been far more successful with their casting than PJ has been with either LOTR or TH. Though I love McKellen, Freeman, Stott, Bean, Hill, and even Mortensen to a certain degree, I found most of the other characters to be pretty miscast.

The only exception being Jon Snow - that actor has not been too inspiring.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 20 2013, 12:21pm

Post #36 of 40 (98 views)
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I partly agree [In reply to] Can't Post

but I thought the casting of LOTR was perfection. I thought Viggo was superb and I like his interpretation of the role. I dont mind his hesitant king it made him less a stereotypical hero. Aragorn without any doubts would have been less nuanced and human. It made a nice contrast with the Elves it made them seem all the more perfect beings whereas men were seen as full of flaws, doubts, fears and therefore all the more courageous for overcoming their human frailties.

I agree about GOT its pretty spot on casting, I like Jon but he never emotes and its hard to get any sense of character behind his eyes. I would say the same about Cersei, she looks great but she only has about two expressions, I know her character is very repressive, but you need to see flashes of what she really thinks now and again, otherwise its like looking at a doll.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 20 2013, 1:32pm

Post #37 of 40 (99 views)
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You're assuming that people aren't happy with Peter Jackson's version... [In reply to] Can't Post

The truth, as you must be able to see from these boards alone, is that some people are very happy with it. Some are unhappy and may have preferred a Guillermo del Toro version as you say - but some of the unhappy might have disliked his version just as much. As his version was never made, who's to say?

Same with GdT's version being closer to the book. No one knows that (except, perhaps, GdT). It might have been, it might not. We'll probably never know.


glor
Rohan

Jun 20 2013, 1:43pm

Post #38 of 40 (102 views)
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I have said this before but.. [In reply to] Can't Post

..It is worth repeatiing.

We only have the barest facts about GDTs Hobbit. It is common place for directors to tout potential names for casting in the early stages, that never get cast. We have absolutely no evidence that McShane was even approached to be in The Hobbit, let alone have made it onto the screen as Thorin, McShane was a name banded about by GDT in early pre-production, pre-greenlit TH days, nothing was concrete.

Look I understand different opinions, and the subjective nature of such discussions(eye of the beholder and all that) but I am genuinely baffled as to why anyone would think McShane should have played Thorin, I really am. I understand, the older actor argument, I understand, the I don't like RA's Thorin POV, I just don't get MCShane as the perfect Thorin. McShane is not, or at least has not shown himself to be a great actor, His excellent Deadwood performance caused a lot of British critics to write articles about because that performance was such a shock and revelation and is the only perfomance that he has done in his long career that has recieved such high praise.

(please note: I am using the term 'great'. that doesn't mean that if an actor is not great, they aren't good or decent, I am not implying that McShane or anyone else is a bad actor)

Yes I am aware that actors reputations can only be as good as their roles and that opportunities to be cast in good roles are not always based on talent, Christopher Lee is a good example of this a great actor whose ability to show his talents have been severely restricted throughout his career because his height has restricted the casting opportunities he has had.

If you had asked me to cast TH before I had seen it by playing the imaginery fan casting game, thenThorin would have been Mark Rylance,(ok I know that's a complete fantasy, this great stage actor rarely does films and he would never commit himself to such a long shot), or perhaps if he could have done a British accent the very recently, late, Great James Gandolfini (i didn't like the Sopranos, but his performances had a prescence to them that would have suited the role). There is one actor that I first saw on British TV almost a decade ago, in an historical drama serial about an early sea voyage to Australia, I forget it's name and as soon as he appeared on screen, I thought that's Thranduil. Unfortunately he isn't playing Thranduil but voicing Smaug..

I loved RAs Thorin, and he wasn't even a name on my radar, I was not a pre-TH RA fan. However, I do find the dismissal of an RSC actor whom amongst other things, was part of Sir Anthony Sher's/Nicholas Hynter's (director the National theatre) experimental and influential RSC productions, and was the lead in one of the most highly respected BBC classic novel adaptations (ask Julian Fellowes, he whom created Downtown Abbey) North and South and, also the acclaimed modern Drama Spooks, as just picked for being a pretty face a little insulting.

My point about age wasn't really about who was playing Thorin, just that as a classic children's book The Hobbit, age is relative to the reader, and a child's idea of old is very different to an adults because age is relative


(This post was edited by glor on Jun 20 2013, 1:45pm)


glor
Rohan

Jun 20 2013, 10:43pm

Post #39 of 40 (77 views)
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Different versions [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course for all we know, GDT's version of The Hobbit may not have been so very different to PJ's version.

I for one would love to know more about GDT's plans for the Hobbit but to assume it would have a different cast, and a different visual style, is a massive assumption.

I, like you suspect that of GDT's Hobbit had been made, that the unhappy would still have remained unhappy.


(This post was edited by glor on Jun 20 2013, 10:44pm)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 21 2013, 3:56am

Post #40 of 40 (106 views)
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Not saying I dislike RA [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought IM was brilliant in Deadwood and Sexy Beast and would have been a great Thorin. The only down side was his age and making the physical requirements of the role very challenging. And you guys are correct we don't know what GDT would have done with the films.

However, it was PJs decision to go from 2 to 3 films. Now perhaps GDT would have done so as well, but we don't know that either. Based on the original plan for 2 films with GDT, I am saying that it would have most likely stayed that way and made for a more concisely done 2 films as opposed to 3 with the non canon filler (ie Azog subplot) material to stretch them to the current 3 films. Thats really my only gripe about them. hey GDT may well have screwed the pooch or blown us away ... we'll never know for sure, but for me AUJ had some really great moments yet was kinda unsatisfying ... like lembas vs cram.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

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