Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
In regards to the whole "staying true to Tolkien" argument...
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell


Jun 15 2013, 4:07pm

Post #101 of 115 (97 views)
Shortcut
I wondered that too... [In reply to] Can't Post

I was only 13 years old when ROTK hit theaters, so I wasn't in the mix with all the reviews and analysis with the film. I only discovered this sight a few years ago in light of the Hobbit developements.

I'm really interested in how critical everyone was on here of the LOTR compared to The Hobbit. I love that there's so many people on here that care so much about this franchise and J.R.R. Tolkien. It's exciting stuff!


jtarkey
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 4:18am

Post #102 of 115 (85 views)
Shortcut
I was also 13 when ROTK was released! [In reply to] Can't Post

All that I saw was nearly universal praise for that film!

From my point of view, the LOTR trilogy is considered a masterpiece, and a landmark in Cinema.

The critical response to AUJ and LOTR is nearly a comparison between black and white.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


CathrineB
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 11:06am

Post #103 of 115 (85 views)
Shortcut
In my opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

I have actually asked myself "Why do I love these movies so much when I love the books just as much?" and I have come to the conclution that I suppose it's easier for me to accept that books and movies are two different medias. I'm able to enjoy both of them.

That's not to say I like everything, but somehow I'm still able to shrug it off without it being enough to have me give up on the fandom at all. I'm without doubt more forgiving than I probably should be Laugh

Like I agree that forcing in action scenes everywhere where there are not in the books is not necessary. I don't like that (sometimes are good. I quite liked the troll fight actually).

In the regard of the Hobbit though I still think the movie compliments the book. I adore the book. It's sweet and lovely, but lacks character developement and depth so so so so so much. It's very flat there. That's where the movie has made the book better to me. I love the dwarves now. I can read the name of Bofur and I just swell with fondness for him which I had no reason to before the movie.

I think PJ & Co are usually most of the time (note: not always), but most of the time very good with characters. They do fail sometimes, but otherwise I think they are brilliant with the casting and depths. I love almost everyone of the dwarves, I'm dying to see what they'll do with Thranduil and even Legolas. I'm unsure about Tauriel, but for these reasons I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see her in the movie.

So all in all. People might not call me a true Tolkien fans because of my opinions, but I don't care. I consider myself a Tolkien fan and fan of the movies. Why should I let myself be pulled down by disappointments when I'm actually able to brush it off?


telcontar7
The Shire

Jun 22 2013, 8:04am

Post #104 of 115 (48 views)
Shortcut
biology? [In reply to] Can't Post

Biology and Physics are not completely independent from each other. If you're concerned about gravity when dwarves fall from tall cliffs, you can't just handwave Smaug's impossible flying and fire-breathing abilities as biology because they break a number of rules and laws of Physics too (including gravity).


telcontar7
The Shire

Jun 22 2013, 8:21am

Post #105 of 115 (47 views)
Shortcut
Gravity [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of people seem to be concerned about gravity when it comes for falling, but completely ignore the fact that gravity would have made it impossible for Smaug to fly and move fast. If you think about it, the eagles would have trouble with flying as well.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 12:28pm

Post #106 of 115 (41 views)
Shortcut
Dragons don't need to defy gravity... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
A lot of people seem to be concerned about gravity when it comes for falling, but completely ignore the fact that gravity would have made it impossible for Smaug to fly and move fast. If you think about it, the eagles would have trouble with flying as well.



Dragons could have organs that produce hydrogen gas, giving them both lift and a fuel for their fire. Also, the atmosphere might have been thicker and or more oxygen-rich during the time of Middle-earth, making flight easier for larger creatures. But aside from biological speculation, dragons must be considered magical creatures and not subject to normal limits.

There have been huge flying creatures in the real world. Quetzalcoatl saurus was the largest of the pterosaurs and had a 45-foot wingspan. The extinct Haast's Eagles of New Zealand was nearly as large as Tolkien's Great Eagles and preyed on the moa, which could be up to fifteen times the raptor's weight.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 22 2013, 12:57pm

Post #107 of 115 (44 views)
Shortcut
Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

are meant to be humanoid, not immortal, and can be killed in the normal fashion. They are not meant to have special gravity defying properties. It goes against Tolkiens writing to make them seemingly immune from the normal rules of physics. Comparing them to Dragons who are supposed to be immortal and probably possible only in the realms of fantasy (although a massive flying Dinosaur once lived) is a bit disingenuous.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 22 2013, 1:02pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 1:08pm

Post #108 of 115 (38 views)
Shortcut
I was not comparing the dragon to the Dwarves. [In reply to] Can't Post

Try reading my post again in the context of the post to which I was responding. Dwarves were not even remotely an issue.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 22 2013, 1:12pm)


telcontar7
The Shire

Jun 22 2013, 1:44pm

Post #109 of 115 (31 views)
Shortcut
I wasn't comparing them to dragons [In reply to] Can't Post

My point was that if you want realistic physics, be consistent and expect it from every aspect of the movie/novel.


(This post was edited by telcontar7 on Jun 22 2013, 1:53pm)


telcontar7
The Shire

Jun 22 2013, 1:47pm

Post #110 of 115 (31 views)
Shortcut
They actually do need to defy it to be able to fly [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless their bodies were mostly made from hydrogen simply producing hydrogen is not enough. The slight variations of atmosphere wouldn't make difference as well because of the dragons' sheer size. Smaug would have trouble with moving let alone flying (the largest pterosaurs are tiny in comparison).

I suppose some of the great eagles were as small as the Haast's eagles, but the ones that participate in the story are several times larger.

So, in the end, I still don't see why anyone would expect realistic physics from a fantasy movie where even existence of some characters defies the rules and laws of physics.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 22 2013, 6:52pm

Post #111 of 115 (27 views)
Shortcut
and I was not replying [In reply to] Can't Post

to your post but someone elses


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 22 2013, 6:57pm

Post #112 of 115 (25 views)
Shortcut
you expect realistic physics from Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

because they are humanoid. you do not expect realistic physics from Dragons. Its a fantasy film. It has to be consistent with logic. Its illogical for Dwarves being able to survive almost certainly fatal falls, its perfectly logical to expect a fantasy Dragon to fly.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 10:06pm

Post #113 of 115 (21 views)
Shortcut
Proably, yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Unless their bodies were mostly made from hydrogen simply producing hydrogen is not enough. The slight variations of atmosphere wouldn't make difference as well because of the dragons' sheer size. Smaug would have trouble with moving let alone flying (the largest pterosaurs are tiny in comparison).

I suppose some of the great eagles were as small as the Haast's eagles, but the ones that participate in the story are several times larger.



At least in the case of a dragon as massive and as large as Smaug. He would be too big to be able to fly in the real world through any natural means and still be recognizable as a dragon.

The Haast's Eagle was probably able to carry off a man. I was wrong to suggest that the Great Eagles were comparable in size. You are right, they would have been significantly larger. However, I think that Quetzalcoatl saurus is an indication that the Great Eagles were not impossibly large. As to your last point:


Quote

So, in the end, I still don't see why anyone would expect realistic physics from a fantasy movie where even existence of some characters defies the rules and laws of physics.



You've hit the nail on the head without realizing it. I would NOT expect that any characters would defy the laws of physics with the exception of characters who do so by magical or supernatural means. Bend the laws of nature a bit in the name of dramatic license, but don't shatter them. Dragons can fly and breath fire because they were magically created to be able to do so. When Dwarves fall from a great height, they go splat, just like anyone else.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 22 2013, 10:08pm

Post #114 of 115 (17 views)
Shortcut
I apologize [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sorry; I didn't think to trace your post back to its source. I assumed it was meant for me because of the dinosaur reference.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 22 2013, 10:12pm

Post #115 of 115 (18 views)
Shortcut
No problemo [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.