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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Lilly on Tauriel
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dormouse
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 7:00am

Post #101 of 121 (297 views)
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Fair enough... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and no need to be sorry! I just hadn't heard any negative comment about her before.


Starling
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 8:03am

Post #102 of 121 (301 views)
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In the dim reaches of my memory [In reply to] Can't Post

there is a thought that the Morwen character was pregnant, and that when she clutches onto Eowyn in the caves at Helms Deep she is actually having a contraction, and Eowyn is probably going to have to be midwife along with everything else. In the process of editing the pregnancy storyline disappeared, but parts that were filmed remain, so it's all a bit messy really. Am I right or did I dream this?
And what doesn't help me is the actress Robbyn Malcolm - she very well known in NZ and that drags me out of the story every time.


Semper Fi
Rohan

May 29 2013, 10:43am

Post #103 of 121 (287 views)
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Childbirth? REALLY? No thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Those scenes are always awful, drag forever, and everyone is extremly annoying because they are yelling "Push!" "I see the head!",etc. I don`t know why they even toyed with having such a scene but I`m glad that reason prevailed and they deleted it.


elaen32
Gondor


May 29 2013, 2:15pm

Post #104 of 121 (266 views)
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Sorry Starling, but you didn't dream it! [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless we had the same dreamCrazy I also remember this- I think it must be on one of the commentaries- not one of the writing ones-possibly the cast- I cannot remember. They wanted to create even more tension between the women and children in the caves and the battle and so had Morwen go into labour and a terrified Eowyn (Witch King? No worries. Woman in labour- scaaary!) having to deal with it. I'm soooo glad that they dispensed with the idea, except for the little bit we see in the EE!

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 2:16pm

Post #105 of 121 (277 views)
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I don't think we'll see Tauriel at Dol Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Once the company is out of Mirkwood she's done most likely pending the DG stuff(which is all about the Counsel most likely). PJ said the barrels were "relatively early" in the movie. She just isn't gunna get the screen and vocal time everyone is so worried about. Some fighting scenes and some scenes in Thranduil's halls then done. She can't possibly ruin the movie in any meaningful way. I don't even consider her a well known actor....she'll always be the chick from Lost to me Wink



I doubt now that Wood-elves will take part in the White Council's attack on Dol Gudur. I do think that Tauriel will be at the Battle of the Five Armies. There is where we are likely to see the culmination of her character-arc.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


dik-dik
Lorien


May 29 2013, 3:58pm

Post #106 of 121 (271 views)
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'character arc' - that phrase makes me uneasy. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I do think that Tauriel will be at the Battle of the Five Armies. There is where we are likely to see the culmination of her character-arc.


If Tauriel is important enough to have her own arc, then her role won't be as backgroundish as that of the other women. That makes me worried.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 4:19pm

Post #107 of 121 (262 views)
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I don't think that Peter Jackson can help himself... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If Tauriel is important enough to have her own arc, then her role won't be as backgroundish as that of the other women. That makes me worried.



I think of Tauriel in terms of the characters Ben Hayes and Jimmy from Jackson's King Kong, the first mate on the Venture and the boy who looked up to him as a mentor.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


DwellerInDale
Rohan


May 29 2013, 4:31pm

Post #108 of 121 (267 views)
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Tauriel at Dol Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post

If you believe she won't be at Dol Guldur, then you'll have to explain scenes like the attached photo, which looks a lot like DG from the grey stone steps and columns.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.

Attachments: Tauriel_DolGuldur.jpg (15.0 KB)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 4:42pm

Post #109 of 121 (255 views)
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Dale? [In reply to] Can't Post

To my eye, those could just as easily be part of the ruins of Dale.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 29 2013, 7:32pm

Post #110 of 121 (238 views)
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Yes there were guards [In reply to] Can't Post

but in the book they guarded the prisoners in the cells and weren't trying to interrogating orcs for Thranduil, or chasing and killing spiders, or any of the other made up fan fiction that Lilly will surely be doing in the films. It would be one thing for her to be the captain of the guard get drunk pass out and get her keys taken by Bilbo, I could live with that. But writing her in to be doing a bunch of made up nonsense that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit with what Tolkien wrote is just lame and unnecessary. THAT is where the contradiction is, the extent and involvement of her role in the tale. which should be if anything a small one.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 9:08pm

Post #111 of 121 (225 views)
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Sorry, my friend... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
but in the book they guarded the prisoners in the cells and weren't trying to interrogating orcs for Thranduil, or chasing and killing spiders, or any of the other made up fan fiction that Lilly will surely be doing in the films. It would be one thing for her to be the captain of the guard get drunk pass out and get her keys taken by Bilbo, I could live with that. But writing her in to be doing a bunch of made up nonsense that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit with what Tolkien wrote is just lame and unnecessary. THAT is where the contradiction is, the extent and involvement of her role in the tale. which should be if anything a small one.



I'm afraid that ship has sailed.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 29 2013, 10:45pm

Post #112 of 121 (213 views)
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Yeah I know it has sailed [In reply to] Can't Post

but doesn't mean that it doesn't suck. Tongue

I really couldn't care less about Lilly or the made up character of Tauriel. I think she is going to be, as Lilly herself put it, "a black mark", in the world of Tolkien. The whole concept of the character from what we have heard so far screams foul and goes against the source material itself. Even the supposed names meaning screams a bunch of crap. "Daughter of Mirkwood"... I thought it was Greenwood to the elves. and since Jackson felt the need to have it turning bad IN the Hobbit timeline. I'm sure the name didn't just change overnight. Some people are just optimistic about her, some are being realistic about her and her involvement in something she doesn't belong in. I guess it makes the changes easier to take for some people to see everything in a positive light. But for me once Jackson started making up characters and changing the plot of the whole story around. All the while trying to justify them, with answers that are in themselves vague and IMO side stepping the questions, he lost any respect I had for him from making LOTR. Sure there were character changes in LOTR BUT The character changes in those films were only minor(in comparison)and any made up characters were none with any real substantial plot deviations, which Tauriel surely creates since she is a totally made up, non Tolkien character. doing things that NEVER HAPPENED in the story. I do not consider the captain of the guard an actual developed character in the book since he was vague and had maybe a couple lines and was gone after a few paragraphs. Maybe if Lilly were there for a couple lines and gone after only a few minutes I could accept the character a whole lot more than i do. Wink


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 29 2013, 11:28pm

Post #113 of 121 (209 views)
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Actually, that is not an accurate translation [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I really couldn't care less about Lilly or the made up character of Tauriel. I think she is going to be, as Lilly herself put it, "a black mark", in the world of Tolkien. The whole concept of the character from what we have heard so far screams foul and goes against the source material itself. Even the supposed names meaning screams a bunch of crap. "Daughter of Mirkwood"... I thought it was Greenwood to the elves. and since Jackson felt the need to have it turning bad IN the Hobbit timeline. I'm sure the name didn't just change overnight. Some people are just optimistic about her, some are being realistic about her and her involvement in something she doesn't belong in. I guess it makes the changes easier to take for some people to see everything in a positive light. But for me once Jackson started making up characters and changing the plot of the whole story around. All the while trying to justify them, with answers that are in themselves vague and IMO side stepping the questions, he lost any respect I had for him from making LOTR. Sure there were character changes in LOTR BUT The character changes in those films were only minor(in comparison)and any made up characters were none with any real substantial plot deviations, which Tauriel surely creates since she is a totally made up, non Tolkien character. doing things that NEVER HAPPENED in the story. I do not consider the captain of the guard an actual developed character in the book since he was vague and had maybe a couple lines and was gone after a few paragraphs. Maybe if Lilly were there for a couple lines and gone after only a few minutes I could accept the character a whole lot more than i do. Wink



It's not as bad as you fear. "Daughter of Mirkwood" is not the literal translation of the name Tauriel.

taur S 'wood', 'forest'
-iel feminine name suffix, 'daughter of', 'maiden'
Tauriel S 'daughter of the wood', 'forest maiden'

The name has nothing to do with reflecting the nature of Mirkwood Forest, so you can at least stop worrying about that.

When a story is adapted from one media to another it is often necessary to make some changes to accomodate the nature of the new media. The Hobbit as a children's book can allow Gandalf to drop out of the narrative for an extended period of time with only a vague answer as to what he was up to. A film audience isn't going to put up with that, and so we see Gandalf meeting with the White Council and eventually will see the Council assault Dol Guldur. Likewise, the films must paint a more complete picture of the people and places that Bilbo and the dwarves encounter.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 29 2013, 11:30pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


May 30 2013, 12:06am

Post #114 of 121 (207 views)
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I am not looking forward to [In reply to] Can't Post

her character arc or her character at all. I bet she does a Michelle Rodríguez and starts chewing a cigar.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 30 2013, 2:59am

Post #115 of 121 (192 views)
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Character Ownership [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen no one ask the question of who owns the character of Tauriel. It wasn't in Tolkien's book. It's an invention of the writers and probably owned by the studio, producers or director despite the world into which it is placed. This leads me into some questions about how a studio might figure out how to get around certain rights and royalty obligations to the Tolkien Estate, earning more profit from the marketing of Tauriel merchandise. Profit is the kind of thing where investors quickly lose their artistic integrity.

What do you think - is it too cynical to think of Tauriel as an opportunistic profit center?


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 30 2013, 3:01am)


Yngwulff
Gondor


May 30 2013, 6:06am

Post #116 of 121 (180 views)
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woman warrior [In reply to] Can't Post

  A woman as a warrior does not bother me. Even one like Red Sonja or Lagertha, Ragnar's wife; a shieldmaiden from the Vikings show. Making her a death dealing assasin for the sake just having a token female heroine is another matter.

We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Semper Fi
Rohan

May 30 2013, 10:37am

Post #117 of 121 (173 views)
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Agreed, the issue shouldn`t be with her gender but with her shooter video game characterisation [In reply to] Can't Post

It`s a sad day when Tolkien world has to borrow from video games instead of other way around. And that applies to characters of any gender. If they smack of a video game (all souless shoot`em`up, no substance, obligatory leather fetishism) than it`s really bad. And everything Lilly said about Tauriel so far points out to a typical souless video game knock-off.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


May 31 2013, 2:50pm

Post #118 of 121 (145 views)
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Montage of images for comparison; you be the judge [In reply to] Can't Post

The linked picture shows the two image sources together, Dol Guldur with Gandalf and Evangeline Lilly as Tauriel. Everything seems to match: the grey stone blocks, the triple set of steps, the stone columns, the gnarly trees.

Link

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 31 2013, 6:15pm

Post #119 of 121 (122 views)
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I'd say that it could go either way... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The linked picture shows the two image sources together, Dol Guldur with Gandalf and Evangeline Lilly as Tauriel. Everything seems to match: the grey stone blocks, the triple set of steps, the stone columns, the gnarly trees.



There are certainly plenty of similarities between the images. However, I would expect those same kind of conditions to be found within the Desolation of Smaug. In my opionion, it's too close to call.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


t_bomb
Registered User


Jun 1 2013, 4:39pm

Post #120 of 121 (100 views)
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If I had a complaint to anticipate... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be that her outfit isn't sexy enough.

Cheers


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 2 2013, 6:10am

Post #121 of 121 (151 views)
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Forget the outfit [In reply to] Can't Post

Just have her go skinny dipping with Legolas in some hot springs somewhere.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 2 2013, 6:10am)

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