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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Does anyone else think they'll keep the thrush? (*book spoilers, if still required*)

dik-dik
Lorien


May 13 2013, 3:55pm

Post #1 of 15 (855 views)
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Does anyone else think they'll keep the thrush? (*book spoilers, if still required*) Can't Post

I mean the thrush as an essential tool in the destruction of Smaug. I wonder if Smaug's death in the movie will be handled as it was done in the book. There the conversation between Bilbo and the dragon is crucial IMO in the first place because Bilbo's revelation about the dragon's weak spot is delivered to Bard through the thrush. We've already seen the thrush in the movie, which suggests that he may well play the part he has in the book.
But on the other hand, I believe the team wish to make movies 2 and 3 darker, and so far there have been no talking animals. These two things make me somewhat dubious if the thrush will be involved in movie-Smaug's death or not. No matter how I love the information chain Bilbo-thrush-Bard (complete with a moment for Thorin to shine, restraining Bilbo's hand when the hobbit chases the bird away, and thus 'helping' to slay the dragon Cool), the scene where the thrush points Bard towards the dragon's bare spot, does have a fairytaleish air to it. I half-expect the movie to show Bard noticing the bare spot all by himself. Yet I see the shot of the thrush at the end of AUJ as a sign of the bird's later significance, and the conversation between Bilbo and the dragon would lose much of its vital importance if the thrush's role ended with the hidden door opening.
Thoughts or speculations on the movie-thrush inclusion in the dragon's end, anyone?

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


jimmyfenn
Rohan


May 13 2013, 4:14pm

Post #2 of 15 (417 views)
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hope so [In reply to] Can't Post

in this version of the hobbit, if we can have gandalf talking to moths, im pretty sure a thrush can communicate too, i fully expect to see this in the film, but if it doesnt happen it wont be unexpected considering the changes we have had already. maybe radaghast might have some input here? hope not though

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 13 2013, 4:21pm

Post #3 of 15 (407 views)
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I certainly hope that the thrush is included! [In reply to] Can't Post

I will understand if Bard's (all Dalemen's) ability to understand thrushes (or birds in general?) is foreshadowed rather than springing it on the audience at the last second. I have gotten the impression that Men of the Dale might be an oppressed minority in Jackson's Lake-town; they may use the thrush to send messages secretly to each other.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 13 2013, 5:00pm

Post #4 of 15 (422 views)
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well in the book the thrush [In reply to] Can't Post

didn't speak, Bard was merely able to understand it. I don't really see a reason why they would need to change this. So I am hoping they figure out a way to do it since it was like that in the book. I would love to see it played almost like the R&B cartoon from 77 where Bard is surprised to find out he can understand the bird. The thrush getting in his face blocking his shot of Smaug, all to have Bard stop, wondering how he is understanding this bird telling him of Smaug's soft patch.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


May 13 2013, 7:08pm

Post #5 of 15 (346 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Given that, as you said, they not only showed the thrush on screen but singled him out, Gandalf specifically calling him a thrush and Thorin referring to him as "a sign: a good omen". And of course we then saw him in the infamous closing scene with Smaug.

So, given the effort that PJ & Co. have gone to to emphasize the importance of the bird, it would seem odd to me if they didn't develop the idea further as in the book.

"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities."-J.R.R.Tolkien

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."-Gandalf


malickfan
Gondor

May 13 2013, 9:05pm

Post #6 of 15 (297 views)
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Really Really Hope so! [In reply to] Can't Post

One of my favourite parts of the Hobbit was the whole talking/sentient animal thing, I loved the idea of the thrushes and ravens waiting for the king to return, and I'll be a little annoyed if PJ makes Smaug the only animal capable of communicating with the 'human' characters-especially since he's already teased it, and apprently rewritten Bard's backstory...

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 13 2013, 10:09pm

Post #7 of 15 (269 views)
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Bard's backstory is something that I'm curious to see how they [In reply to] Can't Post

change it. I'm not really a big fan of the whole making Bard a Robin Hood type character and it just seems so cliche' to me. IMO they should have left him as one of the guardsmen of Laketown. Hopefully they keep Bard's royal lineage and have him able to understand the thrush. When they stick to the book though they can't go wrong IMO though.Wink


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


May 13 2013, 10:22pm

Post #8 of 15 (256 views)
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i think they will keep the thrush... [In reply to] Can't Post

 

...unless they need to get some more mileage out of that cgi moth.

or it could be an opportunity for bill the pony, whose day-rate is cheaper than the thrush's.

i suspect they'll keep the thrush in... the thrush was in the denouement of the film, and also personified the film's closing theme of home -- and -- home (thrushes lived on the mountan, and also are a heraldic symbol seen on the rippling banners of erebor, just before smaug attacks).


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

May 13 2013, 10:52pm

Post #9 of 15 (241 views)
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Thumbs Up for the Thrush [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's hope he is given his due. We have hope since we have already seen Radagast conversing with a robin.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


May 14 2013, 1:38am

Post #10 of 15 (198 views)
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I would hope so [In reply to] Can't Post

They showed the thrush at the end of the film. I would think it would still be there, hopefully.


Súlimë
Rivendell


May 14 2013, 5:41am

Post #11 of 15 (197 views)
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I think the thrush will be there! [In reply to] Can't Post

But I don't think Bard will have a full-blown conversation with it. It might be something a lot more subtle.


dik-dik
Lorien


May 14 2013, 8:42am

Post #12 of 15 (175 views)
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Yes, that's more or less what I was thinking... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Bard was merely able to understand it. I don't really see a reason why they would need to change this. So I am hoping they figure out a way to do it since it was like that in the book. I would love to see it played almost like the R&B cartoon from 77 where Bard is surprised to find out he can understand the bird. The thrush getting in his face blocking his shot of Smaug, all to have Bard stop, wondering how he is understanding this bird telling him of Smaug's soft patch.


The thrush staying Bard's hand, a bit like Thorondor and Fingon, and just chirping, would work for me. I'm just curious if they keep even that much, because it seems a tad fairytaleish and not very badassy to me, while the trend in AUJ seemed to me to be veering off the fairytaleish feeling of the book, with the exception of the Radagast storyline. Don't get me wrong - not that I would complain a bit if they stuck to the book with the thrush. I am merely speaking with those in mind who complained about TH being too fairytaleish and not epic enough.Wink
As far as the overheard dialogue of Bilbo and Dwarves is concerned, I don't have many worries about its inclusion. Thrush hearing about the dragon's weakness and flying off doesn't seem to detract from 'coolness', so I'm fairly hopeful this book moment will be preserved.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Arannir
Valinor


May 14 2013, 9:29am

Post #13 of 15 (167 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I think it might be similar to the way Gandalf communicates with the moth.

The only thing that has to be established than is that Bard can understand it, which should not be too hard. And clear editing and camera work during Bilbo's speech so it is clear that the thrush has heard about Smaug's weakness.

Or they will go for the option I talked about in another thread: that Bilbo will play a much more active role and write a message and send it off to Laketown with the thrush.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

May 14 2013, 3:49pm

Post #14 of 15 (140 views)
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Birds do it, bees do it [In reply to] Can't Post

even educated fleas do it. Not that that's relevant. However, bees can communicate a lot using mime - it's how they tell the rest of the hive where the good flowers are. I can see the thrush doing something similar, by indicating on its own body, where Smaug's particular weakness is. Of course, this will either look terrible, or really good, depending on how it's done, but it would at least be more interesting than more of the same whispering in ears stuff that we've seen so far in these and other films.


Yngwulff
Gondor


May 16 2013, 7:59am

Post #15 of 15 (96 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... I think it might be similar to the way Gandalf communicates with the moth.

The only thing that has to be established than is that Bard can understand it, which should not be too hard. And clear editing and camera work during Bilbo's speech so it is clear that the thrush has heard about Smaug's weakness.

Or they will go for the option I talked about in another thread: that Bilbo will play a much more active role and write a message and send it off to Laketown with the thrush.


Or even like he spoke to shadowfax or how Legolas could understand the trees.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

 
 

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