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Maciliel
Valinor
May 19 2013, 1:38am
Post #126 of 133
(1541 views)
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of telerian ships tied up to docks on tol eressea... the waves slapping against their sides, their wooden hulls occasionally knocking into the piers...
arien rises and slides across the sky, and tilion follows, day after day after day... below them, the hollow sound of the water knocking against the sides of the ships, idle, idle, idle,
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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telain
Rohan
May 20 2013, 3:21pm
Post #127 of 133
(1538 views)
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I have not overlooked your quote from Morgoth's Ring...
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...and I will soon drag it into the new chapter thread. Excellent find! Also...
i'm so terribly interested in the folk we don't get much on... the vanyar, the teleri, the nandor, the numenoreans, the northern kingdoms, the haradrim (i always wonder... gods! you're fighting on the same side as +orcs+! doesn't that squick you out? make you want to switch sides?).
Agree! There was a series of threads a while back on "tertiary characters"; sador (mostly) and I started it. I always love the tertiary characters (and peoples). I was long fascinated by the Laiquendi and I think Gildor Inglorion is still one of my most-loved characters.
Hopefully, the new chapter discussions can bring more of this out...
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Maciliel
Valinor
May 20 2013, 6:16pm
Post #128 of 133
(1528 views)
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... to start a thread...
cheers --.
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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elostirion74
Rohan
May 21 2013, 9:18pm
Post #129 of 133
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While I agree with you that it was in the nature of the Noldor to go back to Middle-Earth and fulfil the potential of their gifts, I donīt agree with your assessment of the Teleri.
The Teleri spent a longer time travelling across Middle-Earth than the Vanyar and the Noldor, and were divided into many groups before any of them even came to the shores of the sea. Bearing in mind all the time they had to think about actually accepting to go to Valinor, it doesnīt seem strange that those who arrived in the Blessed Realm actually decided to stay. They had already achieved great feats of building and artistry in building their ships and they donīt seem to have the same level of ambition as the Noldor - which is not neccessarily a bad thing if you ask me. In many ways the Teleri of Alqualondë seem more connected to the sea than any of the other elves, and living close to Valinor or on Tol Eressëa allows them to cultivate that aspect of their nature.
Last but not least let us not forget that many groups among the original Teleri stayed in Middle Earth: they show the diversity among the Elves, where some are less ambitious and prefer to roam the lands singing or live simple lives, while others (some of them) form great kingdoms and make works of great beauty and wonder.
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elostirion74
Rohan
May 21 2013, 9:49pm
Post #130 of 133
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You raise very interesting questions and unfortunately I havenīt got the time to respond more in depth than this.
I donīt think Fëanor had the option not to follow his creative zeal; not without becoming thoroughly dissatisfied. He was meant to be a supreme artist and his fiery spirit was a part of this. He did however have a choice in terms of how possessive he became towards his own creations and what lies he listened to and the kind of manipulation he chose to use towards others.
Fëanor chose to pursue specific paths to a point where they engendered their own internal destructive dynamic, once they started to gain speed it was very difficult to stop: I think you could say that he allowed his spirit and his temper to control him instead of trying to master them. It strikes me how he almost always chooses not to listen to the advice of others and thereby cuts himself off from useful guidance. In this I think he was not the victim of his spirit, but of arrogance and excessive pride.
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Brethil
Half-elven
May 21 2013, 11:30pm
Post #131 of 133
(1492 views)
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Fëanor chose to pursue specific paths to a point where they engendered their own internal destructive dynamic, once they started to gain speed it was very difficult to stop: I think you could say that he allowed his spirit and his temper to control him instead of trying to master them. It strikes me how he almost always chooses not to listen to the advice of others and thereby cuts himself off from useful guidance. In this I think he was not the victim of his spirit, but of arrogance and excessive pride.
Indeed I have always seen him as so distant and cut off from anyone's opinions, I think especially after the drifting away from Nerdanel. Something missing there I think, maybe from childhood or life experiences, that although he has a fiery spirit but this is a bit different, in that he never seems to bond with anyone. It seems like only the Silmarils were his truest love, although he takes hurt when Finwe is killed. Even his sons, who remain true - exhorting them to Death as he leaves the world. Still following his own star and no others!
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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sador
Half-elven
May 22 2013, 6:24am
Post #132 of 133
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His mother, the Valar, Nerdanel, Olwe - even Melkor
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Don't you think Feanor felt betrayed at some point by all his would-be advisors?
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Brethil
Half-elven
May 22 2013, 1:10pm
Post #133 of 133
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Don't you think Feanor felt betrayed at some point by all his would-be advisors?
I have always felt that. Nerdanel perhaps the least actual betrayal / disappointment (because I think she did have his interests at heart, but he was not able to see that). So yes I think that perception would be there. Finwe as well, although Feanor was his most-loved son, was certainly somewhat absorbed by a new family; so probably another loss in Feanor's eyes. Miriel's choice may perhaps be seen as a marring of the world, and I do see that early loss as a marring of Feanor's soul with all its resultant tragedies.
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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