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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is anybody else really anxious?
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


May 11 2013, 12:14am

Post #26 of 31 (167 views)
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You are NOT being paranoid. I share some of your concerns, and like you I greatly enjoyed An Unexpected, [In reply to] Can't Post

though I liked it least when the team diverged furthest from the source. Radagast mostly worked for me, minus the bird dung, the eyerolling, the stick insect and the irrequisite senility. Otherwise I enjoyed his scenes and scenery, and while I disliked the truncating of the Dol Guldur timeline, I was fine with his scene there (though The Necromancer could have been better portrayed).

Azog. . . great design and portrayl, HORRIBLE revisions that upset the whole of Dwarven history. Missing Council members and too much subserviance of Gandalf to other council members rounds out my list of script problems.

I think Desolation could go either way. I think there will be a LOT of good and even great in it, but I am preparing for the probabilty that there will also be some misinformative, foolish crap.

In Reply To
This seems like kind of a silly topic now that I am writing it, but I am looking for some reassurance that DoS and TABA will be of similar quality to AUJ. I enjoyed AUJ (not as good as LOTR, but a fantastic movie and fulfilling Tolkien experience), but I'm starting to worry about DoS.

I'm wondering to myself how they're going to divide The Hobbit up into 2 more movies, and I realize that this will be accomplished by inserting content from the appendixes. That's not necessarily a bad thing (I enjoyed the White Council sequences and Radagast for the most part, though I must admit I feel a little lukewarm about Azog). My concern is not so much the inclusion of the appendix content itself but rather when PJ takes liberty with the source material (greatly expanded Radagast role, Azog, etc).

My worry thus concerns whether PJ will be able to create an enjoyable and faithful adaptation of the Hobbit given all the extra content that is being added.

Without spoiling anything (and I mean anything...I'm trying to seriously limit my exposure to DoS and TABA stuff...which I know is strange given that I'm lurking around TORN) is there any insight anybody on this forum has to reassure a nervous Tolkien-ite? I know this a strange request, but if anyone has any (spoiler-free) thoughts they want to share that would be much appreciated. Am I being paranoid? Is anyone else similarly worried? Do I not have enough faith in PJ/the source material?



Unsure


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


May 11 2013, 12:35am

Post #27 of 31 (165 views)
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Compared to what? I had several SERIOUS problems with several of the decisions made in this first film, [In reply to] Can't Post

yet it is HARDLY a bad movie. It is a better film than, say, Avengers, which was both a fun and entertaining film and widely praised. To say that An Unexpected was a bad film, is a very strong and HIGHLY subjective suggestion.

In Reply To
The disappointment of AUJ has fully sunken in for me at this point. It's a pretty bad film, and the next two need to accomplish a miracle in order to save the trilogy.

Gah...Is this REALLY a trilogy? In hindsight, this whole production just seems careless and ridiculous.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


jtarkey
Rohan


May 11 2013, 4:10am

Post #28 of 31 (151 views)
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Well, I'm glad you can have serious problems with a film, yet still enjoy it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Honestly, I wish I could dismiss my problems with AUJ and enjoy it for what it is, but I can't. All of my favorite films captivated me from the beginning. Sure, every film has flaws, but I never really care about the flaws in films I truly love because, ultimately, they don't matter. If the story is able to engage you to a point where you don't notice flaws at all, that is an indicator of a good film FOR ME. (IMO, I'm trying to be kind, it's just my opinion etc...).

It seems like AUJ was made to cater to a general audience, which is exactly the opposite of LOTR. Those adaptations were trimmed, but the spirit remained. In AUJ, the story is bloated, and the spirit of the book lost.

I can certainly say it's a pretty bad film, just the same as you can say it's a pretty good one.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


May 11 2013, 5:41am

Post #29 of 31 (153 views)
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Well. . . even in the book there are things here or their that I don't like. It doesn't change it being [In reply to] Can't Post

a great work that I deeply enjoy on the whole.

This movie DID captivate me from the beginning. Indeed, the first hour (minus a couple of the Frodo minutes, and those weren't awful) provided some of the strongest enchantment in the film, for me.

The things I disliked I disliked strongly, but only marginally more (and in a few cases not as much) as I disliked Glorfindel's virtual dismissal from Fellowship, or the absence of The Balrog's contest in enchantment with Gandalf for control of the chamber door, or the omission of Gandalf doing battle with The Nine atop Amon Sul, or Denethor essentially being killed by Shadowfax. . . I could certainly continue. I think some of the Dwarf History and Council and Angmar alterations may be a bigger deal, only because they cause such a huge amount of historical alteration. And I think the Stone Giants had far too much stone and giant in their construction. But, for the most part, I deeply enjoyed the film. I was very much enchanted by it.

Yes, you can say it was bad. Richard Roper said Fellowship was bad. I disagree with you both. I think this and Fellowship were flawed adaptations, but I think both were (other than the fact that they don't have proper endings) very good movies. Fellowship had a more serious tone. Yet it was supposed to. I think the objective majority critic view of this film is that it was pretty good but dissapointing. Many devout fans feel the same. In both cases this is largely due to comparisons with the novels and with the prior films. Some have let dissapointment in it not being a film more to their liking cause them to label it a poor film, unfairly, in a way that they would not have done had their been no novel or prior film expectations by which to compare it. Casual audiences generally loved it and gave it high praise. Make of it all what you will.

In Reply To
Honestly, I wish I could dismiss my problems with AUJ and enjoy it for what it is, but I can't. All of my favorite films captivated me from the beginning. Sure, every film has flaws, but I never really care about the flaws in films I truly love because, ultimately, they don't matter. If the story is able to engage you to a point where you don't notice flaws at all, that is an indicator of a good film FOR ME. (IMO, I'm trying to be kind, it's just my opinion etc...).

It seems like AUJ was made to cater to a general audience, which is exactly the opposite of LOTR. Those adaptations were trimmed, but the spirit remained. In AUJ, the story is bloated, and the spirit of the book lost.

I can certainly say it's a pretty bad film, just the same as you can say it's a pretty good one.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


May 12 2013, 2:54am

Post #30 of 31 (132 views)
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Don't fret [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't let a few posters run you off. Enjoy the film if you do and let that be the center of what you do here. I loved the movie and felt despite the changes it felt very much like Tolkien's world.

--------

As far as the movie I'm not worried at all. The first film was fantastic and I believe this one will be even better. I am very much looking forward to seeing it in December.



(This post was edited by Elessar on May 12 2013, 2:55am)


Cirashala
Grey Havens


May 12 2013, 3:26am

Post #31 of 31 (142 views)
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not worried [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm honestly not worried at all. Yes the TE of AUJ did feel a little bit rushed at the end but I believe that there is such a thing as enjoying the book AND enjoying the movie adaptation even if they don't totally agree.

I first got introduced to LOTR almost six years ago via the extended edition movies, and the current Tolkien books I now currently own:

1. The Lord of the Rings
2. The Hobbit
3. The Silmarillion including the Akallabeth and The Children of Hurin
4. The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
5. The Return of the King Visual Companion

I also own all three LOTR EE's and AUJ both digital and special edition copies, and will purchase the EE for AUJ and the other two both EE's and TE when they come out.

The only one I haven't completely finished is LOTR because I was up to Faramir and Frodo and Sam when AUJ came out and have been pretty absorbed in fanfiction and TORn since then as well as rereading The Hobbit Wink (plus my 1 year old and almost 4 year old and my sword training and archery training have been keeping me very, very busy!)

I honestly believe that if you don't expect perfection from the movies the spirit of Tolkien will still be there (LOVE LOVE LOVE AN UNEXPECTED PARTY AND GOOD MORNING! Very faithful to Tolkien!) and you can enjoy both the movie and the book because the movie enhances the visual aspect of the book and the book's background can enhance one's appreciation of the movie when they know the background stuff that was unspoken.

I liked that in the book Gandalf mimicked the trolls' speech and confused them until dawn, but then again I also love Bilbo stalling them! (favorite humor scene in all four movies I own so far-even the snot, while a bit OTT I love it simply because of Bilbo's earlier mention of needing a handkerchief instead of simply wiping his nose on his sleeve-a lot of good that "handkerchief" from Bofur did him! The look on Bilbo's face could either be "I got caught and I'm frozen" but I honestly think it's "I.am.covered.in.snot!" frozen look-the expression on his face is priceless!)

I think Bilbo's expressions during the troll stalling were great, and the dwarves' reception of Bilbo's Dwarf Cookbook makes me giggle every time (as does their indignant reactions at having parasites- Kili what are you 12?! LOL Sly)

Not a huge fan of Azog being there, however if he wasn't (or at least SOME antagonist) we would have precious little but walking.....walking...riding ponies....rain....walking.....until Gandalf convinced them to go to Rivendell. That cinematically would have been awfully boring. And I like the necromancer subplot even if my fav scenes are with the dwarves simply because it DOES explain a lot about Gandalf's whereabouts during his absent periods and also because DG (while very creepy) will give us something to watch while the dwarves continue walking.....walking.....walking.....whining about the forest.....bombur's nap....walking....walking....Bilbo climbs a tree....walking.....oh hey torches!

So I completely understand from a cinematic POV that seeing nothing but dwarves walking in mirkwood and whining about being hungry for a half an hour of film would get very tedious.

No, I am not anxious. I think that the movies can be very rich cinematically, and the books can be very rich from a literary standpoint. I think that each and every one of us Tolkienites have imagined being a part of ME at one point or another, and the wonderful thing about Tolkien's world is that you can insert an original character in your mind in there and there is so much that can happen whether it coordinates with a Tolkien specific storyline or not. Does Tauriel worry me? A little-I do want her to be an elf not an orc who happens to look like an elf. But does the romantic rumor bother me? Not as much as you would think, because at the very least it can provide my imagination with more expressions on character's faces for the stories I come up with in my head. Tolkien was a creative genius, and while I do agree that he would have people read the source material, I also know that he was constantly tweaking, writing, changing, revising, adding more stories, etc and I think that as long as we don't go too OTT that he would be pleased that his world of ME has made such an impact that people are STILL, 36 years after his death, are enjoying, creating, and expanding the story within their own realm. A creator loves creating, and if he expected us all to just be content to read and not create ourselves, then that would greatly surprise me. I think he finds enjoyment when people read his stories, and he finds enjoyment when people start creating within his world and understand his creation and races and such because then he has been able to continue that creative cycle. He didn't say "no one can ever do anything with Middle-earth again when I die." He gave his literary estate to Christopher his son to continue the legacy, and that's how we got the Silmarillion published. He wanted the creative cycle to continue. As long as stories don't interfere with the morality he set within his story (the insinuation that Aragorn and Arwen had "relations" before the Fellowship left Rivendell- given Arwen's suspiciously see through nightie and Aragorn half dressed and lounging on a chaise- would have angered him because elves were chaste til their marriages and that would go against his morality) and if someone was to, say turn elves as evil as orcs or have orcs making daisy chains, yeah that would probably annoy him. But someone who is true to the nature and spirit of ME would in my mind be allowed the creativity.

The only decision we have to make is whether to be slightly stick-in-the-mud purists (which could make for a boring movie-see "walking" scenario above) or be willing to enjoy both pieces of art for what they are-art.

And I for one intend to enjoy DOS and TABA (of course, sans the sobbing part after BO5A-you all know what I am talking about Wink) as much as I have enjoyed AUJ- whether it runs along the book or not. Because if I want the book, I will read the book. If I want the movie, I watch the movie. Each enhances the other IMHO and there ain't nuthin' wrong with that Cool

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm

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