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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Sssooo, why is Kili the hot one?
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Kaede
Rivendell


May 4 2013, 3:02pm

Post #26 of 50 (491 views)
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Thumbs up in favor of R&R, tho [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the thorough summary, there. I would hope that Turner (and all of them) are getting some rest out of the spotlight. I'm sure he'll be back in the fray at some point. Yes, it's the price of success in their field, but if we were in their shoes, we would hunker down once in a while, too.


(This post was edited by Kaede on May 4 2013, 3:11pm)


glor
Rohan

May 4 2013, 3:18pm

Post #27 of 50 (529 views)
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On Hot Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

Outside of geekdom (sorry but well we are aren't we Wink), the idea that dwarves could be hot was just weird. Dwarves do not fit into the traditional or, accepted roles utilised to construct hotness and/or aesthetic appeal in film or to turn an actor into a heartthrob.

I mean we are talking fantasy world dwarves here, mostly stout, short hairy males, that's not a description Hollywood execs, media PR, performers and, the public in general associate with sex appeal or heartthrob status!

Ok, there are some fantasy aficionados that think hot dwarves are inappropriate but, the pespective I am advocating isn't an argument from within the genre, just an argument about looking outside of the genre where the idea of hot dwarves was a contradiction in terms.


(This post was edited by glor on May 4 2013, 3:19pm)


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 4 2013, 3:52pm

Post #28 of 50 (505 views)
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Honestly...Jus' What does a "Hotness Scale" look like? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bombyzzz Stumped..


Kaede
Rivendell


May 4 2013, 4:18pm

Post #29 of 50 (489 views)
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LOL. Goldberry? [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool OK, well...it's different for everyone and is a complicated combo of chemistry--it's definitely NOT just looks. Not sure everyone can define it. Given the famous Bombadil penchant for singing so happily about Goldberry Heart I'm guessing she does something akin to hot for you? And admiring from a distance is not the same as wanting it on your doorstep. The Durins are all very fine as acquaintances, but I don't want any of them in my house. Rather high maintenance, the whole lot. (Each one in a different way!)


glor
Rohan

May 4 2013, 8:33pm

Post #30 of 50 (480 views)
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Dunno about a Hotness scale but.... [In reply to] Can't Post

..apparently Majesty is now measured in Thorins Cool


Lio
Lorien


May 4 2013, 8:46pm

Post #31 of 50 (434 views)
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Dwarf ladies! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love how even the ones with full beards are obviously women, but I can't quite put my finger on what gives away the difference. The shape of the face maybe?

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Marionette
Rohan


May 4 2013, 9:14pm

Post #32 of 50 (449 views)
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I guess we have dwarves for all tastes :) [In reply to] Can't Post

For sure we do. Each dwarf can be sexy


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



The Grey Wanderer
Lorien


May 4 2013, 10:12pm

Post #33 of 50 (392 views)
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Plenty of apparently beardless Dwarf women - but none I would call hot...// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ceridwen
Registered User

May 4 2013, 10:46pm

Post #34 of 50 (428 views)
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Welcome ... and don't forget Bifur. [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome,
Don't worry, you're definitely doing it right :)

From the film I think that tag much better suits Thorin. Some of the shots and angles screamed it!

Beyond that it feels like the 'hot dwarf' tag has been a mix of marketing-speak and a bit of in-company teasing, especially of the lovely Turner and O'Gorman, who take it with good grace.

I wouldn't call Kili 'hot' exactly. They've created a better character than just that, far more likeable and with a way to go on the journey. I expect Fili to grow too. Actually all the the dwarves are fine characters, so I agree with you, let's spread the love. I have a soft spot for Bifur. He cracks me up whenever he's onscreen. And then there's Mr Dwalin...

But in the spirit of full disclosure as far as 'hot' goes, I still haven't got over Turner's last role and that most definitely was. Mostly because of the very impressive acting talent on show (honest!).


(This post was edited by Ceridwen on May 4 2013, 10:55pm)


Ceridwen
Registered User

May 4 2013, 10:51pm

Post #35 of 50 (433 views)
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... still giggling [In reply to] Can't Post

"..apparently Majesty is now measured in Thorins"

Genius!


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

May 4 2013, 11:56pm

Post #36 of 50 (433 views)
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Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

is a very difficult character. He is unlikable and annoying most of the way through TH. If PJ hadn't made him attractive we all would have walked out long ago. We are cutting Thorin some slack because he is so darn hot. And he is going to need every bit of it as film 3 draws to a close. People's love for him (however you want to define that) is going to be tested. However if PJ doesn't cover up Thorin's hair with some ridiculous helmet at the end we should all be able to continue to love him.


marillaraina
Rohan


May 5 2013, 12:29am

Post #37 of 50 (408 views)
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LOL [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"..apparently Majesty is now measured in Thorins"

Genius!


I love the Majestic Thorin meme and that's just fantastic.

Thorins actually sounds like some sort of genuine scientific measurement. :)

"On a scale of one to ten Thorins just how majestic is this?"

"Well Bob...according to the measurements we've taken...that would be 8.25 Thorins, 8.25. It's rare to get above a 5, so as you can imagine the researchers here are pretty excited!"

Slight spoilers for Being Human UK to follow:





Quote
But in the spirit of full disclosure as far as 'hot' goes, I still haven't got over Turner's last role and that most definitely was. Mostly because of the very impressive acting talent on show


You know what scene really works for me near the end, it was the one where Mitchell first pretends while Annie is there that he's he's going to "cooperate" with that detective(Nancy?) and then when Annie pops away because she knows he's pretending but she doesn't realize how much, he gets all quietly threatening about the scrapbook she's taken(without a warrant). And it was because it was SO well done, just the smallest change in tone and body language(it's not just the eyebrows LOL).

I kind of wish they'd examined that side a bit more considering the direction they took the character, it's like they spent so much time showing him failing at being good, maybe they could have at least spent a bit more time showing how good he was at being bad. :D If for no other reason than to show what a massive task he'd set for himself trying to overcome the "shark" to use Herrick's metaphor.





*


Brethil
Half-elven


May 5 2013, 1:00am

Post #38 of 50 (377 views)
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I would join that research project Marillaraina! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
"..apparently Majesty is now measured in Thorins"

Thorins actually sounds like some sort of genuine scientific measurement. :)




I should be quite happy to offer my skills in scientifically measuring Thorin. (And just sign Ro up too please, thanks!)

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."

(This post was edited by Brethil on May 5 2013, 1:01am)


Ceridwen
Registered User

May 5 2013, 1:35am

Post #39 of 50 (366 views)
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well - [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously this has to be rigorously researched and peer reviewed by a crack team. Form a queue here --
------

It's best I don't start talking BH, the gushing would be embarassing. But yes. The guy can turn on a pin. Clever, complex, layered, affecting performance. Smile


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


May 5 2013, 2:15am

Post #40 of 50 (358 views)
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Hey, I like Bifur :) [In reply to] Can't Post

To me anyway, Bifur is kind of endearingly shy and vulnerable Blush, one of those types that seems to have a sorrowful past (not to mention the axe in his head), Plus, has anyone noticed how expressive his eyes are, when he's paying attention?

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Kaede
Rivendell


May 5 2013, 4:05am

Post #41 of 50 (397 views)
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Fili [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili certainly measures on the hotness scale--but speaking for myself, I don't feel like we see enough of him. Really looking forward to some standout Fili in DoS... I'd also love to take a look at the Almighty Johnsons, but apparently it's not available in the US? Would like it on iTunes. Anyone know how to access it in the states?


sueb1863
Rivendell


May 5 2013, 3:10pm

Post #42 of 50 (318 views)
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Re: Fili [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope we see more of Fili in DoS, too. He's pretty darn cute as well! :)

I agree that Fili probably would have been more of a presence in AUJ had they not changed actors after filming started, with the result that a lot of filmed Fili stuff couldn't be used.


The Grey Elf
Gondor


May 5 2013, 3:20pm

Post #43 of 50 (297 views)
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I don't know .... [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't that take a bit of a disparagement of RA's acting chops? You know, "we can't trust you to convey a character with depth, complexity and angst that the audience can sympathize with so we're going to up your physical appeal." I can believe a studio exec insisting on this but I would have thought Peter Jackson et. al. would have had more faith in Richard's skills and natural charisma. From what we've heard of other actors who were considered for the role of Thorin, I don't think they fell into the category of "hearthrob." (Think Brian Cox.) I think of RA as a character actor who simply cannot help his inherent smolderiness. And I think he would still have that quality even if he were less photogenic.


Macfeast
Rohan


May 5 2013, 4:15pm

Post #44 of 50 (306 views)
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Was about to say. SPOILERS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin have had plenty of opportunities to win our sympathy; His tragic past brought vividly to life, his dialogue with Balin at Bag End, his repeated acts of heroism throughout the entire movie, his displays of loyalty towards the burglar he never wanted to carry as a burden in the first place, and so on. To suggest that the great writing and acting that went into these moments would be trumped by his physical appearance...yeah, I think that's a bit of a disservice, not only to Armitage, but also to the writing staff. I'd say that the same goes for suggesting that, for Fíli and Kíli's demise to be tragic, they need to be handsome. Don't we have more faith in the writing staff, and the actors?

If at the end of these three films, we don't feel sorrow at the death of the three, then somewhere along the road there was a failing in writing and/or acting, not in character design.


Old Toby
Gondor


May 5 2013, 4:49pm

Post #45 of 50 (275 views)
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Agree with you 100% Macfeast! and yeah, Spoilers! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am completely smitten with Thorin, and would be considered by some as a 'fangirl' although I'm at an age where the term 'girl' has not applied for many years (unfortunately). And I enjoy getting into the various Thorin-and-his-majestic-hair posts along with some of the others here. It's all just so much fun!! However, that doesn't mean his appeal is solely a physical one, by any means! It's the whole package. His bearing, his tragic history, his displays of courage and self-sacrificing bravery, his values when it comes to those under his leadership, his obvious caring for his nephew, and even the qualities he shows that might be considered negative, such as his broodiness and reserve, all come together to make him not only physically appealing, but also an intriguing and complex character. And RA is absolutely wonderful for this role, IMO. Thorin's decent into the dark side will be painful to watch, and having seen RA in North & South, I can well imagine it will be quite a nasty dark side as well.

So as you said, it's the writing, the conceptualization of the characters, and the performance of the actors, not just their physical appearances, that will determine how emotionally invested we are in them, and it's critical that we do become emotionally invested in them in order for their deaths to have the impact I'm certain they will have in the end.

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

(This post was edited by Old Toby on May 5 2013, 4:55pm)


Macfeast
Rohan


May 5 2013, 5:27pm

Post #46 of 50 (259 views)
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And just to clarify. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't mean to fault anyone for expressing appreciation for Thorin's physical attractiveness (hey, I cosplayed as the guy, and plan to do so for the coming two films [although Balin is close to winning me over]; Why on earth, or under it, would I object? Laugh). I just wanted to highlight how much Armitage's wonderful acting, and the writing, contributed towards making Thorin a likeable and sympathetic character, more so than, say, his majestic hair (yeah, I can appreciate majestic hair, too).


(This post was edited by Macfeast on May 5 2013, 5:32pm)


The Grey Elf
Gondor


May 5 2013, 6:39pm

Post #47 of 50 (228 views)
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Hear, Hear!! Or should I say, Hair, Hair! ;-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Dis15
Bree

May 5 2013, 7:38pm

Post #48 of 50 (261 views)
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The 1st time I saw AUJ I was shocked that the dwarfs all looked different, [In reply to] Can't Post

not 13 Gimli-type dwarfs. O.k., Thorin is my no. 1. But I think every single one of those dwarfs are appealing in their own way. Nori, Fili and Kili are all attractive but too young for me. I like Balin in the beginning sequence when Smaug takes Erebor, 95 years younger and strong, and with that long hair with that incredible pleated braid. He was, well, .... compelling! I also love Dori, and think Bifor the most handsome, after Thorin of course. I always liked that long dark hair / blue eyes thing. They all have an appeal. Oh, and I also think Bilbo is cute, and King Thranduil is also rather ... compelling.


(This post was edited by Dis15 on May 5 2013, 7:45pm)


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


May 6 2013, 1:10am

Post #49 of 50 (229 views)
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Welcome Maebeth [In reply to] Can't Post

I find your post interesting. I agree that Aidan Turner is adorable, but Fili, Bofur, and Bilbo are rather adorable in their own right. Even Bombur. I'm not exactly sure why Kili is the hot one. Like others have said, it could be that he has a very expressive face, and he wears less prosthetics so that we can actually see his face, therefore he look slightly more human than the other dwarves, and the elves too. But I honestly don't think Kili was purposely made as the hot one. He just ended up being that way, which is okay, but the fangirls squealing over him can get annoying sometimes.
Kili's good-looking, but don't forget people, he's also an awesome dwarf and a great archer! He's definitely no Edward Cullen or Jersey Shore boy. He's got a lot more going for him than looks alone. Wink


(This post was edited by Ziggy Stardust on May 6 2013, 1:11am)


Kaede
Rivendell


May 6 2013, 2:25pm

Post #50 of 50 (213 views)
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What Chronicles II says about it... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you haven't seen it yet, the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, Chronicles II volume is fabulous. I'll quote a couple of comments (and there are thousands there) that might inform our discussion. Point is, there's a lot of work by everyone on a film project this size about creating audience perception/reactions to the characters--it's quite complex and not left to chance--I think it's part natural, part casting, part design, part performance...so everyone's right!

Hope you enjoy (and check out the book--it's loaded with fascinating design detail...) Full credit to the author, Daniel Falconer...




Peter King, make up and hair designer, The Hobbit Chronicles II, p 60
“Consequently, we put a lot of thought into Thorin, and his arrival in the movie is built up by the other Dwarves as they await his appearance at Bag End. There is an awe and reverence that surrounds him. He is very strong and slightly scary, but also hypnotic and charismatic. Thorin is the leader, a king among his people and the Dwarf upon whose shoulders and future the hopes of his people rests. We went through a number of iterations before we settled on his final make-up, which consisted of a thin forehead and nose, wig, and ears.
“Thorin’s nose was Romanesque, which imparted a sense of nobility. His wig was also entirely composed of human hair, without any yak, which we used to add body to some of the other Dwarves. That allowed it to flow and move more romantically. For the same reason, Thorin’s beard ended up clipped quite close, to preserve his more refined appearance and not hide the actor under a full face of hair. It was important that people understand and relate to Thorin, so we didn’t want to build a wall of hair in front of him that would impede that in any way.”

Peter King, p. 70
“Fili and Kili both began with forehead prosthetics, but these were cut back because they aged the characters too much. It was important that these young Dwarves remain open-faced and easy to relate to, particularly for younger audience members. Their larger noses also became reduced with each make-up test pass, again because the larger noses they began with made them look too old or slightly grotesque.
“Such character-filled faces are something we can accept in the older Dwarves because as we age our noses and ears do get larger and as a species we are used to seeing this. Fili and Kili had to be young and handsome, leaving it up to the actors to bring character through their performances.”

James Nesbitt (Bofur), p. 81
“We went through many different looks in terms of prosthetics. When the first round of prosthetics were tested, everyone agreed that the look was too harsh. Through rehersal at that stage we had decided that Bofur was an optimistic, friendly character that an audience could side with. The character didn’t come across that way with the first prosthetic design, but we went through a refining process and eventually found a look with more of me coming through. Bofur had my voice, but it was important to also see more of my face than the first prosthetic permitted because the filmmakers had cast people in response to how they felt about us. If that’s been covered then we’ve been lost.”



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