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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
DOS Sneak Peek: Thorin and company on a boat *possible spoilers*

Arandir
Gondor


Apr 30 2013, 9:29am

Post #1 of 21 (1746 views)
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DOS Sneak Peek: Thorin and company on a boat *possible spoilers* Can't Post

Ever since I saw the DOS sneak peek and the particular scene where Peter is explaining how editing works, they use this scene with an annoyed Bilbo talking to the dwarves on a boat being steered by none other than Bard. Bilbo stands up, muttering about a saying that he was told "Never venture East!".

Now, I've always thought that this scene would take place after Thorin and Co. arrive in Lake Town and are being taken North upon the river, towards the Lonely Mountain. However, I've recently begun reconsidering this due to a number of factors. Indeed, this scene has made be think that this could potentially take place after the Barrel sequence.

First off, a number of reasons why it doesn't point to it being whilst travelling North towards the Lonely Mountain:

- Bilbo is still wearing his waistcoat (not the furry green cloth we see him in, in some Vlogs - which may suggest is how he is clothed by the people of Lake Town
- All the company looks miserable (both in appearance and morale)
- Bilbo directs his attention towards a wounded Kili (possibly just after the barrel ride?)
- Why would Bilbo state "Never venture East" when they technically would be going North?

Could it be that PJ has further shifted scenes around and made the dwarves and the hobbit meet Bard BEFORE reaching Lake Town? Maybe Bilbo helps the dwarves get out of the barrels before arriving at Esgaroth (possibly in that small settlement he spends the night in, in the book?) and that is when they meet the Bowman and he 'offers' them a trip to Lake Town?

Not sure whether anyone else has thought about this ... but that scene seems odd when considering certain details and timeline issues- nonethelees I'm excited to see how it plays out!Smile

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 30 2013, 9:47am

Post #2 of 21 (708 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

... they meet Bard before the arrival in Laketown, and Bard will play the role of introducing them to the city.

The dwarves and Bilbo did not look like they had just had a recovery and re-gathering of strength as they would have in Laketown... they actually looked rather miserable in that scene... as they would shortly after the barrel escape.


Angharad73
Rohan


Apr 30 2013, 9:55am

Post #3 of 21 (692 views)
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More screen-time for Bard? [In reply to] Can't Post

And a way to introduce him to the audience before he shoots the black arrow, I reckon.

It does look like Bard might have picked up the Dwarves just after their barrel ride and is taking them to Esgaroth. Or perhaps there is something that happens between the barrel ride and the boat trip? Or when exactly does Kili get injured? It's supposed to be an Orc wound, isn't it? So somewhere along the way the Dwarves have to encounter Orcs again, depending on just how long Kili has been keeping that wound a secret or played it down as 'nothing'.

As for heading East - I suppose, Bilbo is referring to the whole trip, coming from the Shire. Erebor is to the East of the Shire isn't it? (I am not very good at Geography...)


(This post was edited by Angharad73 on Apr 30 2013, 9:56am)


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 30 2013, 9:57am

Post #4 of 21 (648 views)
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Yes, something must have happened before.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... as the mood is really down.

But that could also be because of the "fight" they have after the dwarves complain about the barrel ride.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Apr 30 2013, 10:19am

Post #5 of 21 (678 views)
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I figured [In reply to] Can't Post

that scene has got to be before they arrive at Esgaroth. I'm going from memory here as I only saw the sneak-peek live. But as you point out, the Dwarves looked *miserable*, bedraggled ("bed-raggled"? that actually sounds like it might be fun, sort of like besmirching), and a bit fearful. Like something bad has just happened and they're not entirely convinced it's over yet (Kili's wound adds to this). They certainly don't look like they're headed off to Erebor amidst the pomp and glory afforded them on their send-off.

So, yes, it looks like Bard finds them before they get to Esgaroth. Could it be that he helps rescue them from an orc attack right after they emerge from their barrels, and they're not yet sure whether he's friend or foe but that once again they're having to go along with someone to a place not of their choosing because they have no other option?

You're not the only one looking forward to this! Smile


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Apr 30 2013, 10:21am

Post #6 of 21 (699 views)
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I think they took the cut rapid-scene from FOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a scene where the Fellowship is attacked by Orcs/Uruks when passing rapids with their boats. I think this scene was never shot but I've seen the storyboard of it on the EE-bluray. I can imagine that they re-used it for DOS to put even more action into this already very action-packed scene. Perhaps Bard saves the day and introduces himself in a very cool "bowmanish" style?

Here is the storyboard of that scene from FOTR I'm talking about:

SARN GEBIR RAPIDS CHASE - Abandoned Storyboard Sequence


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Apr 30 2013, 10:22am)


Angharad73
Rohan


Apr 30 2013, 10:34am

Post #7 of 21 (615 views)
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That's interesting! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting the link! I don't think I've seen that one before.

Yes, perhaps there is going to be some sort of Orc attack when the Dwarves are in the barrels or just getting out of them, to get some more action packed into that sequence. It would make sense then to have Bard show up to come to their aid and afterwards give them a ride in the boat to get to Esgaroth. Both to introduce Bard and to make sure he is seen as a heroic, likeable character.


(This post was edited by Angharad73 on Apr 30 2013, 10:34am)


Arandir
Gondor


Apr 30 2013, 10:38am

Post #8 of 21 (689 views)
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We may have solved this puzzle i believe [In reply to] Can't Post

I too was thinking that the dwarves are attacked by orcs after the barrels.

Remember one of the vlogs (6 i believe) and the cast and crew had to hurry up cos it was raining? In that shot Fili looks up in a hurry seemingly pretty alarmed.

Furthermore, theres a picture in the visual companion of three orcs beside a river looking very similar to the one in the above vlog.

AND urthermore, in the sneak peek, we are shown Bard firing his bow standing on a couple of rocks similar to the picture and vlog. So i guess we can assume a few things here and join the dots ...

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


Macfeast
Rohan


Apr 30 2013, 12:08pm

Post #9 of 21 (649 views)
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Fíli looking alarmed... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and Kíli grabbing a rock, the closest thing he might have to a weapon by then.

A battle does not seem out of the question.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Apr 30 2013, 12:32pm

Post #10 of 21 (591 views)
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In one of the vlogs [In reply to] Can't Post

we've also seen Kili apparently firing his bow in the direction of the riverbank. I've always thought that this meant the orc band had caught up with them and were attacking. It's likely that Kili, as the archer, would be the one the orcs would be out to kill or wound.


Luinnár
Rivendell

Apr 30 2013, 12:39pm

Post #11 of 21 (572 views)
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But if it is supposed to be after the barrel ride, [In reply to] Can't Post

then how does he have weapons? The elves would have taken them.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Apr 30 2013, 12:49pm

Post #12 of 21 (553 views)
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Yes, I wondered about that [In reply to] Can't Post

but I expect all will be explained in the film. Perhaps a bow has been left propped up in a corner of the dungeon area, belonging to a gaoler, or perhaps it's Tauriel's: either she has given it to them willingly or it might be taken from her if she actually becomes drunk.


Kaede
Rivendell


Apr 30 2013, 2:59pm

Post #13 of 21 (522 views)
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Bofur's hat... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for that link. I've been intrigued by this shot for awhile now. I think it is just after the barrels. At first I thought Kili may have been throwing the rock in frustration/anger rather than defense, but given that both Fili and (in the background) Bofur are clearly reacting in alarm, I think someone's approaching--will be interested to see if it's Bard, goblins, or both! BTW, I notice that they are stripped of their gear (coats, weapons, packs) and it looks like Fili is even missing his braid and mustache beads (his hair's a mess, actually) yet Bofur still has his hat! LOL.


Rostron2
Gondor


Apr 30 2013, 3:48pm

Post #14 of 21 (481 views)
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I would agree [In reply to] Can't Post

An orc attack while they are on the river makes some sense given what we've seen. My question would then be, 'wow' they are far from home. They are into this revenge against Thorin trope big-time if they do it.

You have to keep the action elements in play I guess. Given that there's trade between Thranduil's kingdom, Lake Town and the East according to the books, it could certainly be positioned that the 'raids by orcs are increasing' and this is why the elves are vigilant/paranoid of intruders.

Getting Bard into the story sooner is really important, so if he's a little like Faramir finding the hobbits, that's okay. We need to see more of him. Technically, he did meet the dwarves before the Master of Lake Town since he's with the guards at the bridges. Moving that up a few days out from Lake Town works for me just fine.

Regarding orc attacks: The river attack in FOTR was abandoned, and so was the orc attack in Lorien. They very well might use it here.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Apr 30 2013, 5:05pm

Post #15 of 21 (437 views)
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Yes, it seems likely that [In reply to] Can't Post

A. The dwarves escape from the elves in barrels, only to run afoul of the orcs
B. Bard arrives in a timely manner and drives the orcs away
C. Bard takes the company into laketown

Supposedly there was a cancelled "Bard Barrel Rescue" toy for the AUJ toyline which would hint that this was supposed to be the end of Film 1 (Luke Evans also said that he appeared a little at the end of the first film, then obviously much more in the second movie).

Of course, this might have changed; IMO this could have been where Bilbo affirmed his position in the Company in Thorin's mind (in the original ending for Film 1), but the Bilbo charge/carrock sequence from the end of AUJ may mean that they'll have to rework/reshoot the original Laketown entrance for Film 2.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 30 2013, 8:43pm

Post #16 of 21 (374 views)
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I've suggested many times that Bard could be one of the first Lake-towners that the company meets [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks like Peter Jackson might have taken that basic idea and gone in a completely different direction with it than I would have expected. I am guessing that Bard is sneaking the group into Esgaroth instead of escorting them across the bridge. For some reason, he wants to hide them from the Master, at least for a time.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


marillaraina
Rohan


May 1 2013, 12:14am

Post #17 of 21 (302 views)
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Aww...that's my beautiful dwarf prince, improvving the nearest weapon. :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...and Kíli grabbing a rock, the closest thing he might have to a weapon by then.

A battle does not seem out of the question.


Bofur is also in the background seemingly looking up in alarm.(Liking Kili's quick reaction, he's already got a rock LOL).

I do think it's a good idea to introduce Bard early. When I reread The Hobbit after not reading it for years, I remember being so surprised at how LITTLE Bard was in it before he killed the dragon. It was like "Who the heck is this?!"(Obviously I knew who he was, but you get the idea:)) Not to mention it will up the dramatic stakes when it comes to the showdown between the men of Laketown who want recompense for the damage the dragon does vs. Thorin, because these people have some sort of relationship.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on May 1 2013, 12:15am)


deskp
Lorien

May 1 2013, 1:04am

Post #18 of 21 (319 views)
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Baard colelcts the barrels [In reply to] Can't Post

On the same boat there are a bunch of barrels, so its seems pretty clear that he's the one that fetches the dwarves and the barrels.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 2 2013, 2:43am

Post #19 of 21 (134 views)
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Too bad they gutted that whole scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish they would have followed the book more closely as the company were rowing down the Anduin. For as much as I loved the LOTR films, I am still holding out hope that someone eventually does a 6-film adaptation of LOTR (one for each of the 6 books). Only then could the books be done justice.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 2 2013, 2:54am

Post #20 of 21 (145 views)
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Abandoned/Cut LOTR material [In reply to] Can't Post

I really hope they aren't using material that had to be cut for LOTR as an excuse to draw The Hobbit out. I understand that they couldn't film every chapter of LOTR due to time constraints, but that doesn't mean that the cut LOTR material needs to be transposed into The Hobbit. I want to see Tolkien's story on film, not Peter Jackson's.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 2 2013, 9:28pm

Post #21 of 21 (130 views)
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It is before [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think that Bard would kill some orcs that will be pursuing the barrels. Then in the sneak peek there was a scee were Bard is running from Laketown guards, I feel that he would lead them into the mountain and wen Smaug attacks Esgaroth he will appear in the last minute

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!

 
 

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