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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Azog versus Yazneg Design

Lio
Lorien


Apr 29 2013, 12:06am

Post #1 of 25 (1573 views)
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Azog versus Yazneg Design Can't Post

I think by now we all know that Azog's original design was repurposed, after some modifications, for the Orc who is now Yazneg. Meanwhile, Azog was redesigned and became a completely CGI character. Here are screencaps of the characters for comparison:

Azog
Yazneg

One idea that seems to have been recycled from the old design is the use of Dwarf faces! Both Azog and Yazneg wear them around their waists, and Yazneg has a vest made of them as well (you can see Yazneg's well in this screencap). So, now we know the real reason Azog kills Yazneg. The rascal cribbed his style!

By the way, is there anyone who actually prefers the old design? I'm not talking about prosthetics versus CGI, just the design itself. I mean, if Azog looked like Yazneg, wouldn't he be a bit disappointing as a major villain? I'm so glad they changed it. Crazy

Oh, one last thing. Has anyone else noticed that Yazneg seems to be the only Orc who wears trousers? Laugh

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


LordotRings93
Rohan


Apr 29 2013, 12:11am

Post #2 of 25 (1036 views)
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I like the new Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

Yazneg's design doesn't really suit a major villain. Azog's CGI design looks much more unique and intimidating.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


jtarkey
Rohan


Apr 29 2013, 12:20am

Post #3 of 25 (987 views)
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I'm not crazy about either [In reply to] Can't Post

But I would have to go with Yazneg simply because he is a man in a suit, and not a badly rendered video game villain. He just looks much more intimidating to me. Azog looks big and dopey in comparison.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2013, 12:26am

Post #4 of 25 (983 views)
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I'll agree that the Yazneg design [In reply to] Can't Post

doesn't really measure up to being a lead villain design, but Azog looks terrible, and anything would have been better than the WWE orc we ended up with.

And i actually think that his CGI is fine-- it's his design and portrayal that i think is so completely wrong for a movie like The Hobbit.


Fàfnir
Rohan


Apr 29 2013, 1:41am

Post #5 of 25 (945 views)
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The new Azog is great in my opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

He incarnates power ! And I don't remember who said that he could be a Boldog (a maiar spirit in an orc body) but I think he's way of being less deformed than the other orc, and his blue eyes, really go in that direction.

The yazneg design is just another orc design, not particularly charismatic. His death by the hand of Azog (maybe "hand" is not the good word hear) is kind of symbolic when we think of it, because it's also the vitory of one design on another !


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Apr 29 2013, 2:08am

Post #6 of 25 (925 views)
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Same here [In reply to] Can't Post

If Yazneg didn't have a beard, he would look better.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2013, 3:10am

Post #7 of 25 (942 views)
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no offense to the original design but... [In reply to] Can't Post

it would have been a big let down if that was the final Azog design, it just looks like another orc. There is nothing special at all to that design. Lurtz looked way more formidable than that Yazneg orc! The new Azog is awesome, at first i had a issue with him being CGI but now i love it, he is one bad as* orc! Azog would have destroyed Lurtz in hand-to-hand combat. I look forward to seeing Bolg, from what i've seen so far Bolg will also put Lurtz to shame.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 29 2013, 7:25am

Post #8 of 25 (909 views)
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"Wow... [In reply to] Can't Post

... still not having bought the Hobbit Bluray (I accidently know someone already got it for my birthday next week, so I am a nice guy and not buying ;) ), I am amazed how great those pictures look... in both expeptional CGI work, imho.

I really like Azog's design, much better than the other one. Certainly better than the guy in costume we saw fighting Thorin in Azu originally.

The Azog plotline is really growing on me more and more... I am really excited to see how it plays out with Bolg.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 29 2013, 8:56am

Post #9 of 25 (895 views)
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Have you watched this? [In reply to] Can't Post

Weta Digital's artistry behind Azog: "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey"


Bauglir100
Bree

Apr 29 2013, 1:54pm

Post #10 of 25 (793 views)
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I agree with Rings93. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Yazneg design looks okay, but it wouldn't have really suited a villain that was supposed to be long dead. People would've been complaining that he looked too scrawny/generic/etc. I can just imagine what they'd be saying, too:

"You guys brought back a character that's supposed to have died a long time ago, and that's what you made him look like?"

I don't think Azog would've been nearly as interesting if Rawls played him (no offense to Mr. Rawls, mind you; just a minor opinion). Manu Bennett's portrayal, on the other hand, convinced me to take the character seriously as a major villain, and admire him as a hardcore character. And I have my own saying "Any idea can be good if it's done right.", and in this case: it did.


(This post was edited by Bauglir100 on Apr 29 2013, 1:55pm)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2013, 2:57pm

Post #11 of 25 (760 views)
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Another thing to consider... [In reply to] Can't Post

the role of the Yazneg/Azog character grew in the switch from 2 to 3 films, so the "Yazneg" look was probably fine for the more minor character of the 2 film structure, but the 3 film structure required a more complex character, and thereby a much more distictive look-- hence, Azog. All this makes perfect sense, and i understand it. I just personally think that the final look and portrayal of Azog is a complete failure, regardless of their intention. He seems like a refugee from a much lesser movie.


Bauglir100
Bree

Apr 29 2013, 3:47pm

Post #12 of 25 (739 views)
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If that's the case... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
the role of the Yazneg/Azog character grew in the switch from 2 to 3 films, so the "Yazneg" look was probably fine for the more minor character of the 2 film structure, but the 3 film structure required a more complex character, and thereby a much more distictive look-- hence, Azog. All this makes perfect sense, and i understand it. I just personally think that the final look and portrayal of Azog is a complete failure, regardless of their intention. He seems like a refugee from a much lesser movie.


...then it was a lesser movie that he was clearly too interesting to be stuck in and be doomed to fade into obscurity.


sycorax82
Rohan

Apr 29 2013, 4:52pm

Post #13 of 25 (732 views)
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This is true, the original Azog was never meant to be a major villain [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog was only going to appear in the Azanulbizar flashback as a means to set up the mutual hatred between Thorin and Bolg.

It's Bolg who was the main orc villain across the 2 films, and we already know how amazing his design is through promotional shots. Bolg is still going to feature in a huge way, I'm sure, but the original Azog design (aka what became Yazneg) just wouldn't have cut it as Thorin's nemesis in AUJ.

What I'm hoping is that the new Azog's look is tweaked somewhat for DoS (and hopefully even the AUJ EE?? *please*). It's a very...odd design and I think they would have changed it if they'd had more time.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2013, 6:11pm

Post #14 of 25 (698 views)
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Yes. Please. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What I'm hoping is that the new Azog's look is tweaked somewhat for DoS (and hopefully even the AUJ EE?? *please*). It's a very...odd design and I think they would have changed it if they'd had more time.

At least put some armor on him. The whole superhero/bodybuilder physique aesthetic just does not belong in Middle-earth.


Bauglir100
Bree

Apr 29 2013, 7:13pm

Post #15 of 25 (674 views)
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Who says it doesn't? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where in the Tolkien legendarium did it say that non-Ainur couldn't have muscular bodies? It's not like he used steroids or anything.

Let me guess: you just don't like looking at the scars on Azog's body, and want them to be covered up?


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 29 2013, 7:34pm

Post #16 of 25 (679 views)
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Although, [In reply to] Can't Post

imagine how bad-ass you have to be to fight in ME without armor? Kind of like a warrior deliberately going unarmed into a fight against a swordsman - if I were the swordsman, I'd be thinking twice about the wisdom of fighting someone who is either that confident about his skills or is that insanely uncaring about his personal safety.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2013, 7:48pm

Post #17 of 25 (680 views)
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Or like Strider in the book.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...fighting without a sword!

Remember how some book fans howled when PJ gave him one?

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 29 2013, 7:56pm

Post #18 of 25 (667 views)
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*memory cranks into gear* [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I do remember that. So is Azog the dark reflection of book-Aragorn?

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2013, 8:07pm

Post #19 of 25 (668 views)
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As well that of Beren the One-Handed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dunno if I want to see PJ's dark reflection of Lúthien.

(Or was that the Goblin King? Gads, he was ugly! Everything a Goblin King should be!)

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2013, 9:20pm

Post #20 of 25 (656 views)
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No, i don't have a problem with visible scars per se. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't think that Azog's design works, scarring included, and i don't think that it fits in with Jackson's, or Tolkien's, established aesthetic for Middle-earth. That's just my opinion. In my mind, orcs should be vile and evil and repulsive, not all aggro and pumped-up and cocky like a professional wrestler. It has as much to do with Manu Bennett's performance as Weta's design. Lurtz was muscular, but he still looked and acted like what i think of as a foul creature of Middle-earth. And my point was that at least if he had some armor on, he'd look more like a proper orc.

I just don't like the character-- the way he looks, his story, the performance, and the change to Tolkien's history. This is the only character in all of PJ's films that i feel this way about, so i guess i'm lucky in a way, but he still detracts from the movie for me, and i would have liked AUJ a lot more if he'd been handled better.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Apr 29 2013, 10:21pm

Post #21 of 25 (633 views)
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Yazneg was fine [In reply to] Can't Post

For the role he ended up being, a second in command rather than the big boss. I don't think Azog would have been a convincing antagonist if he remained Yazneg. Not that Yazneg is badly designed, he just screams sidekick/lackey/second in command rather than leader. When I first saw him in action figure form, I assumed he was some kind of emissary from Dol Guldor. I got that spectacularly wrong.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Lio
Lorien


Apr 29 2013, 11:20pm

Post #22 of 25 (624 views)
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Yes, and the brief glimpses of the "old" Azog it shows! [In reply to] Can't Post

What's interesting is that they seem to have changed the old Azog design after it became Yazneg as well. The one shown in the video (as well as the Yazneg action figure) has lighter skin than the final Yazneg design. Which is another change that I like, I'm not that big a fan of pink Orcs. Except maybe Gothmog. Laugh

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 30 2013, 12:46am

Post #23 of 25 (620 views)
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Personally I think Yazneg wasn't enough and Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

was way OTT. Something in between done with practical effects would have been much better IMO.

Yazneg was just lacking something I'm not sure what it was, but he was lacking something image wise that to me just wasn't Bad ass enough.

Azog, just horrible IMO he was purely fake looking, never really fit INTO the scene as much as he felt painted on top of the scene. Roger Rabbit could have been Thorin's nemesis if that were the case. I think for a real character to interact in the way Azog was supposed to act, he needs to be real. Nothing beats a guy in a suit IMO Besides Conan Stevens is like 7 ft tall he would ahve worked perfectly if Jackson hadn't kept changing his mind on the direction of the film.... With a guy in a suit at least the connections can be seen in the scene not the dwarfs stopping short and them putting some cartoon character in the path of their swing. which felt obviously fake to me in the film


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 30 2013, 6:38am

Post #24 of 25 (588 views)
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Cartoonish is a good description... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been trying to put my finger on what felt off for me, and I think that is it....the look was just too radically different for the M-e we're used to. And the scars/armour issue - others have said Azog was too clean looking - yes, surely is he has so little protection he would have real scars earned in battle, rather than self-inflicted "aesthetic scarring?" He's not invincible if Thorin managed to hack his forearm off, so surely others would have got near enough in the past to at least nick him....

As for CGI versus real actor, it will be interesting to see how Bolg works in the next film, and whether we buy into him far more easily...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Glorfindela
Valinor


Apr 30 2013, 8:40am

Post #25 of 25 (586 views)
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I would agree with that [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog has certainly grown on me the more I've seen him. I think his musculature and movement are particularly good in the battle scenes. Because he is not wearing prosthetics, he actually has more expression on his face – and better, more lithe movements generally – than do the Orcs wearing prosthetics in LOTR. I found none of them intimidating, whereas Azog (to me) is quite a scary villain. I also think his voice is great, as is the Orkish language he speaks.


In Reply To
... still not having bought the Hobbit Bluray (I accidently know someone already got it for my birthday next week, so I am a nice guy and not buying ;) ), I am amazed how great those pictures look... in both expeptional CGI work, imho.

I really like Azog's design, much better than the other one. Certainly better than the guy in costume we saw fighting Thorin in Azu originally.

The Azog plotline is really growing on me more and more... I am really excited to see how it plays out with Bolg.


 
 

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