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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Like or Dislike the idea of the High Fells ?!
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 27 2013, 1:40am

Post #51 of 62 (207 views)
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Beyond outrageous. She ISN'T EVEN A HIGH ELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Witch King fled from Glorfindel because Glorfindel was a ressurected Calaquendi of EXTRAORDINARY piety and Spiritual Power, a friend to Gandalf and one of the mightiest of the Noldor remaining in Middle-Earth. I don't have a problem with one of Thranduil's guards being given female gender, and a crush on an Elf king and kicking some orc butt and even having a lurid affair with one of the dwarves if it comes to that. . . but driving back The Lord of The Nazgul! Making a MAJOR Prophecy as though she is gifted with foresight. . . taking on the power and vision of a High-Elf. . . *Vomit*. I am starting to get real sick of some people's BS, if this rumour is true.

In Reply To

In Reply To

B) (Possible Spoiler)

The prophecy of the Witch King's doom will be in DOS...and will be spoken by Tauriel. Philippa Boyens hinted at this part of Tauriel's story arc, when she said that she will do something from out of the Appendices to LOTR that was originally done by another elf. My deduction is that she will be given Glorfindel's line at the end of the Dol Guldur battle (the Witch King and the other wraiths must survive the battle, of course). In the DOS sneak peek there were 1-2 seconds of Tauriel shown fighting orcs in what looked like Dol Guldur (it had broken stone columns and steps), so it seems that she does indeed take part in that fight. And there's a sense of synchronicity about the idea: from one female character (Tauriel) to another (Eowyn). And the writers can also have another chuckle at the expense of Glorfindel fans, as once again his place is taken by a female elf (Arwen in FOTR, Tauriel in The Hobbit). I hope you're not also a diehard Glorfindel fan!Wink



"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 27 2013, 2:01am

Post #52 of 62 (182 views)
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Calm down AO, there is another possible interpretation. [In reply to] Can't Post

While I based my speculation on what Boyens said, it could also be the case that Galadriel actually speaks the prophecy, and that Tauriel takes the role of Earnur and is the one who is hot to try and go after and kill the Witch King. This would be in character for both of them: Tauriel the passionate warrior, Galadriel with the gift of foresight. Thus a possible line for Galadriel (after seeing Tauriel shoot arrows that have no effect on the WK) could be something like "Stay your hand, daughter of Mirkwood; far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of a man."

So please don't hate forever just yet...Wink

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



(This post was edited by DwellerInDale on Apr 27 2013, 2:02am)


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 27 2013, 1:12pm

Post #53 of 62 (146 views)
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I think the Tauriel involvement in the Prophecy is way off the mark if based on the Boyens' comment... [In reply to] Can't Post

since she said they were picking up an idea to do with a female Elf that had to be left out of LotR - the Glorfindel prophecy is neither female or in LotR (apart from the Appendices!) Surely it's more likely to do with the XenArwen concept, or even Nimrodel at a push?

However, I wouldn't completely discount the suggestion that Galadriel may inn fact make the prophecy...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Apr 27 2013, 1:13pm)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 27 2013, 2:16pm

Post #54 of 62 (136 views)
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Eleniel, are you sure? [In reply to] Can't Post

Below is a quote that I've copied directly from a web site that published an interview with Philippa Boyens:

"We could have introduced a female human character. But we decided on an elf. There was a little story thread in Lord of the Rings that we wanted to pick up on and develop and it involved a very feminine energy, so we decided to use it and the character of Tauriel came into being."

Elsewhere she says that fans who are familiar with the Appendices will recognize the story thread. So note the subtle but important differences from what you posted: she doesn't say female elf, she says "feminine energy" (could be the synchronicity of a woman killing the Witch King) and she says it comes from The Lord of The Rings, not that it was something left out of the LOTR films.

If you have a different source, could you let me know?

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 27 2013, 3:09pm

Post #55 of 62 (137 views)
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Oh, okay, I misremembered... [In reply to] Can't Post

Just an Elf, not necessarily female. The "feminine energy" quote I've heard her use regarding Galadriel to explain how the weight of an all male cast needs "levening" with an injection of "feminie energy..."

So she specifically mentioned the Appendices in another interview regarding Tauriel? That's interesting, then.


The only interview I have to hand is the EMPIRE podcast of Dec 21st last year: http://www.empireonline.com/podcast/


Discussing Tauriel right at the end of the interview (around 28 mins) Boyens says :

"It's an invention of ours, but it's hopefully an invention within the spirit of Professor Tolkien, and whose story thread, the germs of it, the seeds of it, lie within the Lord of the Rings in a piece of storytelling that we never got to tell..uhm, that involves an Elf."


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 27 2013, 10:37pm

Post #56 of 62 (108 views)
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Ah! Nimorodel. Now THAT makes more sense. Nimrodel was a wood elf. She fled Lothlorien when The Balrog overthrew Moria. [In reply to] Can't Post

And there was much of sorrow and love in her tale. That makes more sense. I don't want to see her tale hijacked, but I can better see them weaving elements of it into Tauriel.

In Reply To
since she said they were picking up an idea to do with a female Elf that had to be left out of LotR - the Glorfindel prophecy is neither female or in LotR (apart from the Appendices!) Surely it's more likely to do with the XenArwen concept, or even Nimrodel at a push?

However, I wouldn't completely discount the suggestion that Galadriel may inn fact make the prophecy...


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 27 2013, 10:47pm

Post #57 of 62 (107 views)
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The Witch-King being driven from the battle by Glorfindel, his abandoning of The North and the Prophecy Glorfindel makes doesn't have any feminine energy at all [In reply to] Can't Post

at the time. The Prophecy is fulfilled by a woman, and perhaps Glorfindel knew that it would be, but in that instance there is no feminine energy or involvement, nor will there be for another 11 Centuries. So either Phillipa is lying and bs ing us (not impossible) or that isn't the scene they are speaking of.

In Reply To
Below is a quote that I've copied directly from a web site that published an interview with Philippa Boyens:

"We could have introduced a female human character. But we decided on an elf. There was a little story thread in Lord of the Rings that we wanted to pick up on and develop and it involved a very feminine energy, so we decided to use it and the character of Tauriel came into being."

Elsewhere she says that fans who are familiar with the Appendices will recognize the story thread. So note the subtle but important differences from what you posted: she doesn't say female elf, she says "feminine energy" (could be the synchronicity of a woman killing the Witch King) and she says it comes from The Lord of The Rings, not that it was something left out of the LOTR films.

If you have a different source, could you let me know?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 28 2013, 2:36am

Post #58 of 62 (99 views)
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The problem with Nimrodel... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is that there just doesn't seem to be much relevance of her thread to The Hobbit and Tauriel. Nimrodel was a wood elf who pined away after her lover was drowned when he jumped off a ship and tried to swim back to her. So unless they pull the shocker of the year and have Kili fall off the boat and drown in DOS, I have a hard time seeing how they adapted Nimrodel's story for Tauriel.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 28 2013, 5:55am

Post #59 of 62 (107 views)
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Supposedly she will pine for Thranduil. And that isn't going to happen. For one thing he is [In reply to] Can't Post

clearly too Fabulous. Thorin might be more his type, hence all the aggression and tensin. Ahahahahah. And there may be pining in one direction or another involving Kili. Who is, spoiler, going to die. Love and loss and death, the rising of a Terror near to a forested Elf haven that sets many of these things into motion. . . there is plenty in common with Nimrodel's tale without it being a carbon copy.

In Reply To
...is that there just doesn't seem to be much relevance of her thread to The Hobbit and Tauriel. Nimrodel was a wood elf who pined away after her lover was drowned when he jumped off a ship and tried to swim back to her. So unless they pull the shocker of the year and have Kili fall off the boat and drown in DOS, I have a hard time seeing how they adapted Nimrodel's story for Tauriel.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eruwestial37
Lorien

Apr 28 2013, 7:47am

Post #60 of 62 (76 views)
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Why not have her pine [In reply to] Can't Post

for Kili after he dies in battle? It would have the flavor of the Nimrodel story without straying too far from the Hobbit.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 28 2013, 12:42pm

Post #61 of 62 (69 views)
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Seems highly unlikely, [In reply to] Can't Post

...given what we know about her character as the serious, badass warrior. I believe she may shed a tear for him at the end, but I can't see her go off by herself and pine away, as Nimrodel did. Plus, I can't see the writers devoting the time they would need in TABA to show one relatively minor character go off by herself and pine away.

Still, it's possible that just the story of Nimrodel the female elf per se inspired Tauriel-- you could interpret Boyens' remark about a story thread in LOTR that she and Fran Walsh liked in many ways, so maybe Nimrodel just "inspired" them to write about a female elf character. The main problem for me with that is that Boyens said that "hardcore fans will recognize the storyline". So, it should at least have some similarity to an actual story thread from LOTR.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 28 2013, 6:29pm

Post #62 of 62 (81 views)
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It cannot be an exact mirror for any story, as there is no known Tauriel. [In reply to] Can't Post

So there will have to be a gulf of some measure between recognizing and seeing a scenario almost directly lifted from the history.

The story of Nimrodel can be, in some places, mirrored without stepping on any fan toes or on the lore. Replicating themes of longing, pining and loss in Tauriel's life does not revise and omit them from Nimrodel's. Hell, she could even mention Nimrodel in comparison to herself. "It is akin to the tragedy of Nimrodel long ago. Evil comes to shadow the forest, and the hope of love is lost." Something like that. THey have already said there will be love and pining of some manner involving Tauriel, Thranduil and Kili, though the specifics remain uncertain.

To give her Glorfindel's role (or even Earnur's), is not only a massive stretch, it is something of a shot across the bow. The creative team, Boyens et al, CANNOT be so oblivious as to not know that a fair number of fans were quite displeased over the unceremonious handling of Glorfindel, and one would hope they would not be either so oblivious, obtuse, callous, or playfully spiteful, as to (having already aggrandized the likes of a comparative feather weight like Lindir) go so far as reassigning more of his history and historical significance to another Elf again, and in this instance one who never even appeared in the stories. That would be beyond obnoxious. It would simply be ugly.

In Reply To
...given what we know about her character as the serious, badass warrior. I believe she may shed a tear for him at the end, but I can't see her go off by herself and pine away, as Nimrodel did. Plus, I can't see the writers devoting the time they would need in TABA to show one relatively minor character go off by herself and pine away.

Still, it's possible that just the story of Nimrodel the female elf per se inspired Tauriel-- you could interpret Boyens' remark about a story thread in LOTR that she and Fran Walsh liked in many ways, so maybe Nimrodel just "inspired" them to write about a female elf character. The main problem for me with that is that Boyens said that "hardcore fans will recognize the storyline". So, it should at least have some similarity to an actual story thread from LOTR.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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