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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Silmarillion Discussion Chapter 10: Of the Sindar
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May 1 2013, 9:07pm

Post #76 of 77 (118 views)
Brief answers [In reply to] Can't Post

The Sindar seem to be rather dismissive about the Dwarves - one Sindarian name for them is an rather personal observation about their height, the other sounds like a disease.
Just wait until we get to chapter 12 "On Men". Once the Elves feel threatened, they can become really nasty.

Or, perhaps no longer being the only intelligent lifeform is a massive culture shock, they are struggling to adapt, and doing it by assuming that a different race must be an inferior one?
Well, if Elves know that they are the Elder children of Iluvatar, isn't this assumption both natural and justified?

Amusement tinged with a big dose of anxiety?
I wonder - did the Sindar know of orcs at this point in time? I don't remember. But at any rate, the Cuivienen stories about the Hunter were searedinto their consciousness, and they were naturally apprehensive.
In The Book of Lost Tales, Gwendelin (aka Melian) calls the Lord of Nogrod "Child of Morgoth". Even if Tolkien came to realise that was anything but the truth, I won't be surprised if some of the Sindar had entertained lingering suspicions.

Interesting that we're told the Noldor and Dwarves get on better - communities of the skilled tend to be very inter-racial, because you can bond over the shared passion for something (science, engineering, jazz, soccer...).
Do you consider Tolkien appreciation a "skill"? Our small community seems to be pretty diverse.

My initial guess is that Melian has taken an extremely intimate interest in Middle-earth and the Sindar: maybe she is just paying more attention to the things that turn out to count?

In my answer to Finwe, I suggested the same idea.

So that sounds like some months at least to me, and I felt surprised to think of the Noldor's journey being such a long one. Is that just me?

According to the Annals of Aman, it actually took several years. The Noldor were reluctant at first to cross the Great Sea at its widest, so they journeyed to the North for some time with the Telerin fleet accompanying them just off the shore, before the cold forced Feanor to consider taking to the ships.
This decision was probably assisted by his knowledge that the Sea was pretty narrow up north.
But I agree that my impression from the published Silmarillion was somewhat different. Maybe I just need to closely re-read it.

Boy, is it confusing to have a character called Denethor in the story, completely different bloke to the Denethor of LOTR.

Well, according to the appendices, this was a common occurance in Gondor: the original bearers of the names Hador, Beren, Hurin, Turin, Turgon, Ecthelion and Boromir all appear in The Silmarillion. Oddly enough, there is no knowned First-age precedent for Faramir's name.
But arguably Denethor is the only case in which the personalities seem actually different. Yes - you have a point there.


May 2 2013, 12:17pm

Post #77 of 77 (120 views)
Just to say, Discussion of Chapter 11 has started! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to say, Discussion of Chapter 11 has started!

Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

"nowimė I am in the West, and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "

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