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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Has AUJ increased your appreciation of the books? (Or, the "I can name all thirteen Dwarves now!" thread)
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Apr 21 2013, 8:03pm

Post #26 of 35 (241 views)
There is still hope. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, not much hope, but some. Maybe in the EE or if Bilbo stops in Rivendell on the way back. Evil

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Apr 21 2013, 11:05pm

Post #27 of 35 (218 views)
PJ is certainly not "simply inserting the missing story elements" [In reply to] Can't Post

If he had actually done that, I imagine AUJ would have turned out a lot better.

At this point, PJ is making stuff up to turn a single book into 3 films. Almost nothing in AUJ is drawn from the appendices, and the things that are were drastically altered. I don't seem to remember a bunny-mushing Radagast, a video game villain Azog, or the Ringwraiths being put in tombs under spells in any of Tolkiens writings.

As far as AUJ making me appreciate the source material, it certainly does....but not in a good way. It makes me realize how wonderful that little book is. It's also a reminder that the LOTR films were masterpieces of cinema, and how rare it is for any film to achieve what those did. It's also made me appreciate the Rankin Bass cartoon a whole lot more. I feel that cartoon captures the spirit of the book far better than AUJ.

So basically AUJ has made me appreciate everything that is better than it. I just wish AUJ would have made me appreciate AUJ.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

Tol Eressea

Apr 21 2013, 11:23pm

Post #28 of 35 (217 views)
well i respectfully disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

i think PJ is simply "updating" The Hobbit the way Tolkien was going to do but decided not to. The LOTR's trilogy is a masterpiece, i do believe when all three Hobbit films have been seen as a trilogy they will stand proud next to the LOTR's films.

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Apr 21 2013, 11:24pm)

Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea

Apr 21 2013, 11:37pm

Post #29 of 35 (207 views)
re: The Lord of the Rings films [In reply to] Can't Post

It's also a reminder that the LOTR films were masterpieces of cinema, and how rare it is for any film to achieve what those did.

Yes, absolutely. I like AUJ well enough (with a number of caveats), but my spirits fell a bit during that first screening when I realized that the film wasn't going be the same quality of LotR. It's a high bar to reach, surely, but PJ & Co. knocked the ball out of park so incredibly with the previous films, that it was inevitable to hope for a repeat.

I will always wonder how the 2 film version of these films would have turned out. Leaner editing, no Azog subplot, the first film would have gone all the way to the end of Mirkwood, etc. It's impossible to know how the film would have fared in that form (we'd still have Nazgul tombs and Radagast's bunnies, after all), but I wish we'd have gotten to find out. Unsure

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Apr 21 2013, 11:45pm)


Apr 22 2013, 1:52am

Post #30 of 35 (183 views)
I see where you're coming from [In reply to] Can't Post

But how do we know that the way PJ "updated" The Hobbit is the way Tolkien would have? If PJ somehow has a stash of Tolkiens notes that explain, in depth how he would have melded TH with LOTR, then maybe I'd understand.

But to my knowledge, this isn't the case.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

Tol Eressea

Apr 22 2013, 3:24am

Post #31 of 35 (178 views)
true, but [In reply to] Can't Post

i did not say PJ updated The Hobbit the way Tolkien would have, i said PJ updated TH 'like' what Tolkien was going to do. As i said, i believe TH trilogy once seen as a trilogy will stand proud next to the LOTR's trilogy.

take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Apr 22 2013, 10:29am

Post #32 of 35 (163 views)
I've read the 1960's rewrite-The TALKING PURSE is still in it!! Hrdly in keeping with LOTR! [In reply to] Can't Post


‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth


Apr 22 2013, 12:54pm

Post #33 of 35 (152 views)
yeah exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

that is what i was trying to get at that the rewrite didn't change the hobbit into lord of the rings like people think it did - for the part of the story he rewrote. He did try to in tone as others have said but the actual story in terms of involving the extra plot PJ has done, just wasn't added.

PJ adding in all this fan fic as it is what Tolkien would have done is a load of nonsense. lol.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.

(This post was edited by imin on Apr 22 2013, 1:02pm)


Apr 22 2013, 11:17pm

Post #34 of 35 (131 views)
I've actually been wondering about that [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether the talking purse is still included in the rewrite, that is. But hey, the talking purse rocks! If it were taken out I would have been upset. Laugh

Anyway, I'd love to get my hands on that rewrite someday, once I'm done with some of the other things I'm reading. I can't help but wonder what it would have been like had Tolkien continued it all the way though. It would be interesting to have a somewhat different perspective on the adventure, even if it's basically the same story.

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Apr 24 2013, 12:19pm

Post #35 of 35 (135 views)
Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Has AUJ increased your appreciation of the books?
For me, yes, but probably not in the same way as with you.

In Reply To
Surprisingly, despite all the changes that were made to the story, I found this to be the case.

And with me, it's rather precisely because of the multiple deviations from characterisations, plotline and the general tone, that I love the book even more than I used to before I saw the movie.

Anyway, I agree that the movie made me somewhat appreciative of the Dwarven hardiness and showed their ancient culture which I am hoping to see more of. It definitely made me read more on the subjects covered, even if for the most part it was motivated by a desire to read up on what didn't sit well with me in the movie.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington

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