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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What does a “sequel” mean?
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Dec 19 2007, 8:29pm

Post #51 of 70 (1774 views)
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Treasure in Bree? [In reply to] Can't Post


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I've also wondered what became of the "Men of Bree" and what they did with their share of the treasure.

Are you perhaps thinking of Dale? Bree doesn't even exist in The Hobbit, except when viewed retroactively.


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Maybe there is material in The Silmarillion, which is a collection that I have yet to read.

There isn't, and if there were, Jackson & co. couldn't touch it anyway, as they don't have the rights.

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merklynn
Lorien

Dec 19 2007, 9:05pm

Post #52 of 70 (1774 views)
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I think PJ could be considered a real fan [In reply to] Can't Post

 


oldfan
Registered User

Dec 19 2007, 9:30pm

Post #53 of 70 (1733 views)
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umm [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe a long time ago. If PJ was in this for love and not money, then what was the point of the lawsuit? Peter Jackson is who he is, but IMHO he is not a fan. Which just begs the question of how you are going to get anything resembling "good" fan fiction from people with commercial interests.


BG
Board Developer / Moderator


Dec 19 2007, 9:30pm

Post #54 of 70 (1805 views)
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Maybe it would work... [In reply to] Can't Post


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As everyone agrees, this concept of a "bridge" story would be pure fan fiction. Problems mentioned include:



...if it were a literal bridge movie... perhaps the engineering and construction history of the bridge of Khazad-Dûm?


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Here's what I was thinking: If people believe that making a fan fiction bridge story is a good idea, then why don't we write our own. Just create a Wikipedia-style page and start writing. If it is going to be fan fiction anyway, at least it should be written by the real fans.



Oh yeah, what a great idea, us real fans are soooo much more talented and capable than professional screenwriters. Tongue


oldfan
Registered User

Dec 19 2007, 9:42pm

Post #55 of 70 (1694 views)
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it will work [In reply to] Can't Post


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Oh yeah, what a great idea, us real fans are soooo much more talented and capable than professional screenwriters. Tongue



You are being sarcastic?


(This post was edited by oldfan on Dec 19 2007, 9:44pm)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Dec 19 2007, 9:55pm

Post #56 of 70 (1699 views)
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The lawsuit was... [In reply to] Can't Post

at least partly about transparent accounting.

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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Dec 19 2007, 10:01pm

Post #57 of 70 (1737 views)
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"Notes on Dwarven Engineering" by Reverend. [In reply to] Can't Post

A Reading Room thread from 2003.

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TomBomb
Registered User

Dec 19 2007, 10:48pm

Post #58 of 70 (1741 views)
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Bree-Dale [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, it probably was Dale...the man with the Black Arrow...It's been some time since I read the book. Where did I get Bree from?
Anywhoo...There must be some material about the many dwarves that accompanied Bilbo, there were 12 of them I believe, I'm not sure how many perished during the final battle. This subject should surely play a big role in the Hobbit Sequel.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Dec 19 2007, 11:09pm

Post #59 of 70 (1749 views)
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Three of the thirteen dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post

die in in the Battle of Five Armies: Thorin, Fili and Kili.

And the hero of Lake-town is Bard.

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GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea


Dec 19 2007, 11:28pm

Post #60 of 70 (1693 views)
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I suspect it would be more along the lines of Trilogy of Terror. / [In reply to] Can't Post

;o)

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rewand
Registered User

Dec 20 2007, 2:59pm

Post #61 of 70 (1857 views)
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yes, the story of Thorongil (Aragorn) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hobbit takes place in 2941-2942. This just 10 years before Aragorn comes of age and 17 years before he goes off on his many journies. It should fit well it between the Hobbit and the Fellowship. A bit of Saruman back story could be worked in as Thorongil and Thengel tromp in the Isengard environs and the Gandalf/Denethor friction could be worked up as well. Then, of course there's the Arwen story which would likely dominate. I don't know. As good as Fran is with the script the made up parts are never quite as good as the "real" thing.

Following that same thought, the main problem the Arwen/Aragorn sory is that it's strongest when it's told the way Tolkien told it. Aragorn, raised in Rivendell, sets off to prove/prepare himself. He's on a quest to live up to his name. After all Elrond had clearly explained that his daughter would sacrifice her immortality for no one less than the king of both Gondor and Arnor. But if you follow the story this way you can't end up with the pathetic, reluctant hero figure Peter put into the LoTR movies. It's also difficult to bridge from a supportive, almost fatherly Elrond that Tolkien wrote about to the brooding and protective Elrond of PJ.
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Curious
Half-elven


Dec 20 2007, 4:54pm

Post #62 of 70 (1797 views)
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Elrond is protective of Arwen in Appendix A. [In reply to] Can't Post

He forbids Aragorn from wooing her until he saves the world from Sauron, which is almost as difficult as the task Beren had to perform.


visualweasel
Rohan


Dec 20 2007, 5:53pm

Post #63 of 70 (1689 views)
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Jeez, could you at least give a spoiler alert?! [In reply to] Can't Post

Next you're going to tell me there's an actual king in The Return of the King and that he does, in fact, return. Ack! Not listening, not listening!!

I crack myself up! Wink

Jason Fisher
Lingwë - Musings of a Fish

(This post was edited by visualweasel on Dec 20 2007, 5:54pm)


makonix
The Shire

Dec 21 2007, 12:23am

Post #64 of 70 (1653 views)
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it might be a good idea if done well [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on all ideas, I created a list of all events ordered by their possible appearance on the screen.

Part one:
Aragorn's birth, and rise from orphaned heir of the Dunedain and Elrond's ward
Introduction to Gandalf and Bilbo
Introduction to the dwarf kingdoms
introduction to Gondor
Gandalf's discovery of Aragorn
Gandalf's preparation of Middle-earth for a conflict with the newly risen dark lord.
the fall of Osgiliath
The whole adventure of Bilbo
The White Council meets to discuss The Necromancer
Introduction to the elven kingdoms
The battle of the five armies

part two:
Gollum leaves the mountain, searching for the “thief” Baggins.
Balin leave for Moria
Aragorn searches the wilds for Gollum.
Legolas and Gimli's rise to representing their fathers
Aragorn visits Moria and Harad, and maybe Rohan and Gondor and Umbar.
Balin and his attempt to recapture the Mines of Moria from the Orcs
More about the life in Lorien and Haldir's role
More about Rohan
The White Council (including Saruman and Gandalf) attack The Necromancer’s stronghold at Dol Guldur.
Boromir's counteroffensive to retake Osgiliath
Aragorn’s engagement to Arwen.
show the growing power of Mordor
Saruman's fall from grace beginning
Introduction to Frodo and the other hobbits and maybe to the other younger LOTR people


I can understand the concern of the lack of an actual text. But watching LOTR movies, I noticed that they used lots of text from one book, in a scene from another book. This trend can be certainly used in the Hobbit as well. Since it is a movie adaption, the power of the words are relative to the person, not to the time happening. And the LOTR books are full of text referencing the period before the time of LOTR.
At the end of the day, the real power lays in the hands of the right scriptwriter and his knowledge of the characters.


simoncito
Registered User

Dec 21 2007, 12:29am

Post #65 of 70 (1717 views)
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The Prequel to The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

Why all this fuss about a bridge movie? There is plenty of material that is much more appropriate concerning events - including significant dialogue - before and during The Hobbit: Thorin's ancestors and the battle at the gates of Moria, and Gandalf at the dungeons of Dol Guldor (appendix and Unfinished Tales); early tensions in Gandalf and Saruman' s relationship (Unfinished Tales); Saruman's searches at the Anduin for the ring; the White Council overthrowing Dol Guldor.

And then you have all the later events described at the Council of Elrond (Gollum's story; the dwarves at the lonely mountain being threatened by Sauron's messenger; the travels of Aragorn and Gandalf; Balin leaving Erebor to reclaim Moria). That is actually a LOT of text... but enough to create a whole new film? Maybe not. And do all the dates really strictly have to follow the appendix anyway - Jackson after all heaviliy compressed time in the other films?

So the best way does seem to me to be to expand The Hobbit and incorporate parts of this to each half, ending - as does the book - with the visit of Balin and Gandalf to Bag End (perhaps adding Balin announcing he has left the Lonely Mountain and is gathering a team to re-take the ancient home of Moria...)

What else is really needed?


simoncito
Registered User

Dec 21 2007, 12:38am

Post #66 of 70 (1652 views)
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Ergo [In reply to] Can't Post

So split the thing in two and ratchet up the two halves!!


rewand
Registered User

Dec 21 2007, 10:01pm

Post #67 of 70 (1705 views)
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OK, brooding and controlling Elrond [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He forbids Aragorn from wooing her until he saves the world from Sauron, which is almost as difficult as the task Beren had to perform.

Perhaps I chose the wrong word but my point is that while Tolkien's Elrond expresses concern, and worry over the potential union and tells of the potential pain for all involved, he doesn't go around trying to thwart Arwen's choices. His daughter she may be but he treats her like a 2800 year old adult. Filling Aragorn with reluctance, having Elrond withhold Anduril, pretending that the ships sailing were the very last ones etc. were all plot devices used by PJ to bring drama to the love story. This was not without cost. Aragorn's character suffered greatly. Next to the utter rape of Faramir's character I hold this as the most egregious sin of the movies.

All of this is a problem if PJ want's to make a movie about how Aragorn "became at last the most hardy of living Men, skilled in their crafts and lore. . ." Apdx A(v). Big gap between that Aragorn and the one in the movies


dvanwechel
Registered User

Dec 24 2007, 2:36pm

Post #68 of 70 (1706 views)
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Sequel means none of those things... [In reply to] Can't Post

As mentioned by Peter Jackson on a number of occasions, The Hobbit has a large number of characters and important events that should be given appropriate screen time - a single film wouldn't accomplish this. I'm guessing that the word "sequel" is being used to describe The Hobbit being broken into two films.


Dunadan
Registered User

Dec 27 2007, 4:45pm

Post #69 of 70 (1653 views)
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One book told over two movies [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of you get it, most of you don't...

It'll be The Hobbit told over the span of two movies. Because PJ has credibility to make these box office successes, it is smarter to make two ~1.5 hour movies than one 3hr movie.

Expect to see some scenes from the appendices, but nothing that will draw away from the main story too much.


Mortimus
Bree

Dec 29 2007, 5:24am

Post #70 of 70 (1620 views)
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One book told over two movies [In reply to] Can't Post

This is certainly the version I'd rather have, with Dol Guldur happening concurrently (as 'the' bridging material - I do wonder whether that's what's being referred to), and I would be very happy to have no Aragorn/Arwen story, and no Gimli/Legolas cameos. I speak only for myself, of course.

My reasons? They've been expounded here by others more articulate than me already, but mainy because I think cameos would be a step too near the 'cute and cheesy' camp, and they add nothing to the story. In fact, I would say they 'shrink' Tolkien's world, rather than add to it.

As for the 'romance' sub-story, I would be the first to agree that the story of The Hobbit is somewhat challenged in the romance angle and potentially only promises Bard as eye candy ("if-that's-what-you're-into....", he whistled), but I like the fact that we encounter Aragorn first as Strider through suspicious Hobbit eyes, and his story unfolding naturally through the trilogy. I think the story of him and Arwen, and indeed the hunt for Gollum and Gandalf's research into the Ring - are all told deftly and swiftly in FotR. Re-telling the same stories large in a sequel reminds me of the remastered Star Wars and its repeated Greedo/Jabba dialogue.

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