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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Balin, Lord of Moria?
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 18 2013, 4:31am

Post #26 of 30 (157 views)
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Here it was. . . Dain, Balin. . . The Balrog of Moria, Bane of Durin, Terror of Durin's Folk, shadow of Fear upon even blessed Lothlorien. [In reply to] Can't Post

In another thread some of the fellow torn kin and I discussed, briefly, the introduction of Dain, especially in light of the changes that have been made already to the history of the war, the Dwarves etc . . . Dain may be seen to be obnoxious and potentially entitled. . . we already know that, in the movie Dain "would not come. . . says this quest is ours alone,". So already Dain, an even closer kinsman to Thorin than Balin, Dwalin, Gloin, Oin, Nori, Dori and Ori, has been cast as a no show who couldn't be bothered when his dispossesed king's call came, but who is going to show up with great force of war once the dreadful guardian dragon is dead and away. Thorin is going to die in that battle, and Dain is going to become King. . . a Dain who probably will not have slain Azog.

I may seperate post on this at some point. I think it possible that Balin will be shown to resent these things. . . enough to seek his own kingdom in Moria. It may be (indeed, a rather Hope The Balrog gets mentioned in some way), that Dain will sober up and advise Balin against it, saying something along the lines of, "At the great battle, I went into Moria with Thorin to hunt down Azog and be certain he was dead. . . but we found more within the gate than we dared to dread. . . IT was still there Balin. The Ancient Horror. The Demon of Moria, the Slayer of our Sires. . . Durin's Bane. We. . . we never spoke of it, such was our horror. But it is why Thorin made no attempt to colonize Moria after the battle was won. I speak of it to you now only to warn you against folly." Balin could disbelieve and chalk Dain's words (willfully. . . "Thorin no!") to Dain trying to keep him "hemmed in". Perhaps replying "You think to frighten me as a child with horror tales and nightmare beings from the legendary past. Say that you don't want to see Moria revived to a kingdom to outshine your newly gained Erebor and be done with it. . . But I won't cower for fear of terrors the way you cowered and would not come to the call of your King for fear of Smaug!" ???

I will leave you all with the great lines concerning Dain, Thrain, Durin's folk and Durin's Bane The Balrog. ". . . Dain caught Azog at the gate and slew him. . . but though he was hardy and full of wrath, when he came down from the gate he was grey in the face, as one who has beheld great fear. . ." And to Thrain he said, "You are the Father of our folk. We have fought and bled for you, and will again. But we will not enter Khazad-Dum. You will not enter Khazad-Dum. . . beyond the shadow it waits for you still, Durin's Bane (The Balrog). The World must change, and some other Power than that of the dwarves must come before Durin's folk walk again in Moria."

In Reply To
The idea was that since Dain Ironfoot refuses to accompany the dwarves on their quest, Balin, being sort of a spiritual advisor to Thorin, feels resentment over the fact that Dain becomes King under the Mountain. This in turn creates a rift between him and Dain, and Balin, feeling confident over the success of the Erebor quest, decides to go try and re-take Moria. They could also try and find a way to crowbar in Dain's line about Durin's Bane waiting there, before Balin storms off with a company of dwarves (including Oin and Ori).

I can't take any credit for this idea, but I think it's a really good one. I just can't remember who came up with it Tongue


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Apr 19 2013, 1:14am

Post #27 of 30 (96 views)
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Yep, that was the one [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought that was a great idea. It's not canon, but like you said, with all the changes they've already made, this would be a good way of explaining why the sensible Balin we've come to know would go and do something so silly like try to retake Moria.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 19 2013, 3:09am

Post #28 of 30 (91 views)
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I hope they take one of these routes. The Balrog of Moria needs mentioning [In reply to] Can't Post

in a film set about Durin's Folk that leads into The Fellowship of The Ring and its famous scene. . . I think this is one of a few ways that would avoid eggregious changes and continuity problems like having Balin's folk awake the Balrog (what the hell drove the dwarves out of Moria to begin with. . . a HUGE piece of History), which also makes the whole matter of The Balrog too recent a happening, truly ruins and degrades the powerful history of The Demon and of Durin's folk, and even contradicts not only the lore and some hints of the Fellowship movie but also the tie in visual book for THIS movie.

In Reply To
I thought that was a great idea. It's not canon, but like you said, with all the changes they've already made, this would be a good way of explaining why the sensible Balin we've come to know would go and do something so silly like try to retake Moria.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Rostron2
Gondor


Apr 19 2013, 6:05pm

Post #29 of 30 (70 views)
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All nice ideas [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see that happening with an actual scene.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 20 2013, 10:31pm

Post #30 of 30 (62 views)
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Before the leaks and clips. . . did you see Radagast smacking down The Witch King in [In reply to] Can't Post

Dol Guldur? lol. Less accurate (though not nearly as defiantly erroneous as some things we saw), and less knit into the fabric of the history of Durin's Folk. Still. . . lol

In Reply To
I don't see that happening with an actual scene.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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