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Pazeer
Rivendell
Apr 15 2013, 2:49pm
Post #1 of 18
(1337 views)
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Fili during the Goblin chase
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Hi! I am pretty new here, so I'm sorry if there's already been a thread concerning this subject, but anyways...
I've watched The Hobbit several times by now, and what I've noticed (I think) is that Dean O'Gorman doesn't at all appear in the goblin chase and the scenes with the Goblin King. I've tried stopping the film during the short glimpses where we actually get to see Fili, and in my opinion he looks radically different from O'Gormans portrayal in the rest of the movie. My question is: Is it Rob Kazinsky we see during the goblin scenes, because they said he filmed a few scenes before he left...?
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2013, 3:01pm
Post #2 of 18
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I know i see RK a number of times at Bag End,
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and i'm pretty sure there's at least one case of digital face/head replacement. I haven't really noticed in other parts of the film, though.
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Angharad73
Rohan
Apr 15 2013, 3:54pm
Post #3 of 18
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...anything clearly during the chase scene and everything since they are moving so fast, but I agree that Fili is mostly absent. At the start, when the Goblins first grab them, there is that bit where Thorin kind of tries to grab Fili and Kili, but you only see Fili's back, so it's hard to tell who the actor is. When the Dwarves stand before the Goblin King, you can kind of see the top of Fili's head at some point (someone posted a screencap in a different thread, otherwise I wouldn't even have noticed it in the movie), but so far I haven't managed to see if it's O'Gorman or Kazinsky or even a stand-in with a wig. It's entirely possible that it's Kazinsky in those scenes, I think.
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Subaruman
Bree
Apr 15 2013, 4:23pm
Post #4 of 18
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The Goblin Town sequence was some of his favorite filming. Odd considering you barely see him in any of it.
"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."
- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956
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julia0925
The Shire
Apr 15 2013, 4:51pm
Post #5 of 18
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whenever I see the Goblin Chase. In some cases it looks like he's at the front of the line running, and others he's at the back of the line - since it's all from behind it's hard to say who's actually playing him. I see him right behind Dwalin when Dwalin cuts the railing from the walkway and uses it to sweep away the goblins in front of them. I would say that it's really Dean at this point, since Rob left about a month into filming. I've heard that, with a few notable exceptions such as the Riddles in the Dark scene, that they filmed it mostly in order. Which would be why you can see Rob in Bag End, and I think even in Rivendell that I see him, but for the rest of the time - certainly any location stuff - it's Dean.
Also, Dean does mention in one of the books that go with the movie that he participated in the Troll fight scene - which was filmed by the 2nd unit, remember, so it would have been a little later
-----
Lotr: You know it's been a bad day when even the elf is smudged.
TH: when the going gets tough, the tough call the eagles.
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Maciliel
Valinor
Apr 15 2013, 5:01pm
Post #6 of 18
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fili is face-down when they're all tied up in sacks, and he doesn't say anything intelligible. when i see this scene, i often wonder if that's a stand-in (or a lie-in, in this case).
however, i think i see fili during the actual troll fighting.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2013, 6:25pm
Post #7 of 18
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This thread might help answer your question.
My understanding is that O'Gorman is Fili at the very beginning of Goblin Town, when they are first captured after their fall, and during some or all of the running part of the escape. In between, when they are all standing in a group in front of the Great Goblin, O'Gorman doesn't appear to be Fili and someone else is standing in for him. I'm not sure if it's Kazinsky or a body double. This screencap shows Fili on the right, and it's not O'Gorman as far as I can tell.
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Apr 15 2013, 6:41pm)
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2013, 6:30pm
Post #8 of 18
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Fili is hard to spot from the moment the Company comes out of the caves to look out over the valley. He's always just out of shot on the edge of the group, or seen only from the rear. Either it is Rob in those shots, or the scale double because Dean was absent...
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
Avatar: Elwing by art-nouveau-club on DeviantArt
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Pazeer
Rivendell
Apr 15 2013, 7:07pm
Post #9 of 18
(486 views)
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I have to admit, I get the feeling that there are two different actors during this period in the movie, plus the body double of course.
I managed to stop the movie in a moment when it's clearly Aidan Turner playing Kili, thus ruling out the body double, and I don't think it looks like Dean at all! If it is Kazinsky or not I'm not sure though... Either way, it's not very important, I don't think many people notice it if they're not looking:)
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DuBekar
Rivendell
Apr 15 2013, 8:29pm
Post #10 of 18
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Here you can see Fili fighting in the background after Gandalf cut the goblins head :) http://imageshack.us/f/687/namnlsyb.jpg/
and here after Dwalins little rush through :) http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4962/filid.jpg
more fighting... http://imageshack.us/f/546/fili2.jpg/
There are more of him during goblin town/goblin chase :) so he is not gone at least ;)
"Good morning!" he said at last. "We don't want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water." By this he meant that the conversation was at an end.
"What a lot of things you do use Good morning for!" said Gandalf. "Now you mean that you want to get rid of me, and that it won't be good till I move off.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Apr 15 2013, 9:47pm
Post #12 of 18
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and the way i started picking up on the two different actors from shot to shot, is that Kazinsky is quite a bit taller than O'Gorman-- Kazinsky is 6'1" (as is Turner), O'Gorman is 5'8".
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Kimtc
Rohan
Apr 16 2013, 12:39am
Post #13 of 18
(433 views)
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I have developed Kaminsky Vision™
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I spent an entire theatrical viewing looking for him (or a stand in), and now spend a lot of time with the Blu-ray looking further. Got to the point where I only saw Rob, to the exclusion of everything else in a scene (particularly in Bag End). I, too, didn't see Dean in the beginning of Goblin Town; I thought it was a stand-in, though, because of how tall Rob is; Fili is definitely hidden in the far back corner of the group when they are presented to the Goblin King. I did see Fili running as they escaped, but not in any close shots (they way they did with Kili, Thorin, Balin, and Dwalin). At least one of those shots appeared to be the scale doubles. You really have to concentrate on the scene to see what I mean. It is the same at Rivendell--I think it was a double, not Rob, because of height, but if you really, really look it doesn't look like Dean. Generally, if it is Dean, he is close to Aidan; if it isn't, he is off in the distance, in the back, or off the screen. If it's Rob, he's tall and has a higher hairline on his wig.
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Kirly
Lorien
Apr 16 2013, 2:17am
Post #14 of 18
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Wouldn't both actors have to be in the credits then?
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Many say they can see RK here and there but I only ever see DO
My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!
pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#
(This post was edited by Kirly on Apr 16 2013, 2:17am)
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marillaraina
Rohan
Apr 16 2013, 3:09am
Post #15 of 18
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I think it's expected if someone leaves after filming has been done and are replaced by someone else that there is no need to credit them while crediting the other person with playing the role.
It's probably in the actors contracts. So long as it's reasonably hard to make them out(and it usually is fairly difficult to make it out otherwise people wouldn't be discussing now trying to figure out who is who). :)
But RK is definitely in there, he's in there quite a bit, more than I thought he'd be.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Apr 16 2013, 4:25am
Post #16 of 18
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Fili is also the dwarf who was last off that swinging bridge and he is the one who jumps at the last second (easy to spot given he is the only blonde dwarf).
I don't have screencaps so I will just try to point out all the times I remember seeing him:
I saw the back of his head when the goblins snatch him and he and Kili reach for Thorin.
I saw glimpses of him while the dwarves are being herded on the ramps (you have to look closely and look for blonde hair-he is close to Kili initially but then he gets shoved towards the back).
I see him standing behind alternatively Balin in the huddle and Bombur also in the huddle who are at the back of the group (the focus is on Kili and Thorin at the front, but you can just make out Fili's head in the back-doesn't help that he is one of the shorter dwarves).
I see him in the background fighting when the fight first started in front of the Goblinking's throne.
I see him behind Dwalin when Dwalin cuts the post off and charges the goblins.
I see him running behind Gandalf at one point.
I see him on the left side of the swinging bridge (viewers POV)
I see him jump off the swinging bridge last (he is the dwarf that is caught by another).
I see him in a couple shots after that in the background fighting with his twin blades.
I see him very briefly as the company is chasing the rock, but it's hard to see since they are running and on screen they are pretty small.
And when Bilbo is blurred while he is wearing the ring, and Gollum is crouching behind the rock, you see a very blurry Fili run out of the tunnel. .
So yes, he is definitely there in Goblintown, however you really need to keep a close eye out.
And no I am not necessarily a Fili "fangirl" but I have seen it several times (20 in theater alone) and made it a point to watch a different character each time for the most part to see where everyone was at any given time (made the chaotic scenes less chaotic for me).
Like I said, just watch for the blonde hair and it makes it easier since it's not as hard to confuse it with the other dwarves.
Hope that helps people keep an eye out for him in Goblintown! 
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 16 2013, 8:35am
Post #17 of 18
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I agree that there are a couple of shots that look suspiciously like Kazinksky.
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However, the rest of the time I think it's mis-identification or a stunt double. Kazinksky only filmed for 1 month. He filmed very, very little. I doubt heis appearances are littered throughout the first film.
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glor
Rohan
Apr 17 2013, 11:48pm
Post #18 of 18
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It's probably Kazinksky's stunt double
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..as I doubt he left when Kazinsky did 
Might explain all the mis-indentification..
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