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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Great Eagles In The Hobbit
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Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 11 2013, 3:02pm

Post #26 of 46 (1537 views)
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The thrush never spoke Westron in the first place [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... the thrush won't speak and that Bilbo will have a much more active role in warning Bard/Laketown by attaching a message to the thrush. Or something similar to that. However, this version would have to explain how the thrush knows where to fly... so it would have to be indicated that it also has some sort of "higher intelligence", such as the eagles and the moth (maybe by also showing the thrush in Laketown, close to Bard, etc.).



There is no need for the thrush to speak any language other than 'thrush'. It is a mark of Bard's heritage that he can understand the thrush's bird-speech (and perhaps the speech of other birds?). Perhaps this will be established before the company leaves Lake-town as Bard uses birds to send messages to companions.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 11 2013, 3:04pm

Post #27 of 46 (1527 views)
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But foxes must think! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 11 2013, 3:04pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 11 2013, 3:04pm

Post #28 of 46 (1530 views)
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Not necessary... [In reply to] Can't Post

... if the message is written by Bilbo. ;)

I at least would be surprised if the thrush is suddenly speaking when the Eagles were not.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 11 2013, 3:06pm

Post #29 of 46 (1529 views)
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Actually that's not too bad... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo draws it to show the dwarves and the thrush could fly off with it and show Bard... it's a bit weird, but it could work...


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 11 2013, 3:08pm

Post #30 of 46 (1529 views)
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This, of course... [In reply to] Can't Post

... is possible and would work. Since we already have Radagast in there who also can communicate with animals.

I don't know why, but still I somehow got this very strong feeling after watching AUJ that it will be Bilbo writing a message. Somehow I could always picture PJ and Co thinking about wanting to make Bilbo a more active actor when it comes to revealing Smaug's weakness.


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 11 2013, 3:08pm

Post #31 of 46 (1525 views)
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Well, I rather meant that Bilbo actually attaches it to the thrush... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but yours could work as well after eating some mushrooms Tongue


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 11 2013, 3:12pm

Post #32 of 46 (1532 views)
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Why would Bilbo attach the message to the Thrush? [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book, doesn't the Thrush overhear Bilbo telling the dwarves and then he flies off and tells Bard? If Bilbo attatches it to the Thrush does he know it would fly to Bard? (perhaps it is his pet) Or is it like a message in a bottle, just throw it out there and hope anyone sees it?

Perhaps he sends it out because they're trapped in Erebor?


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 11 2013, 3:13pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 11 2013, 3:15pm

Post #33 of 46 (1519 views)
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This is what I meant... [In reply to] Can't Post

... what would have to be established. Either the thrush needs a connection to Bard so we know that there is a tie. Or Bilbo tells it to fly to Bard and it is established that the thrush, though not talking, still understands when spoken to.

But in that version the overhearing part would not be in there, of course - just Bilbo in his desperation hoping that his message will reach Bard and Laketown before its too late.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 11 2013, 3:19pm

Post #34 of 46 (1531 views)
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I like the idea of it being a pet - like Bard's homing pigeon [In reply to] Can't Post

 Oh, but we see the thrush in AUJ so I think it's wild...


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 11 2013, 3:19pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 11 2013, 5:09pm

Post #35 of 46 (1500 views)
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Why was the thrush so far from Erebor? [In reply to] Can't Post

And it's a bit of coincidence that a flew past them. No?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 11 2013, 5:15pm

Post #36 of 46 (1499 views)
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The thrush is devine... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it a coincidence that the map knows about the thrush's knocking? The thrush is a symbol of fate I guess. Perhaps that's how PJ sees all the birds of Middle-earth, including eagles?


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 11 2013, 5:22pm

Post #37 of 46 (1495 views)
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Works for me, QT! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is it a coincidence that the map knows about the thrush's knocking? The thrush is a symbol of fate I guess. Perhaps that's how PJ sees all the birds of Middle-earth, including eagles?


There's a lot of "fate" and "coincidence" in Middle-earth. I hadn't thought of that in this instance.

Smile


Rostron2
Gondor


Apr 11 2013, 6:18pm

Post #38 of 46 (1482 views)
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Eagles [In reply to] Can't Post

They like to stick close to home.

Also, limited fuel capacity... (j/k)


adnan
Rivendell


Apr 11 2013, 6:37pm

Post #39 of 46 (1470 views)
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To take it further... [In reply to] Can't Post

Do we really need to show a weakness for Smaug as in the book? What if he dies by the endless arrow hits he takes as he attacks Lake-Town, flies back to the mountain injured, confronts Thorin and the Dwarfs, gets hurt some more, and then mighty Thorin sticks his mighty sword through Smaugs neck. Would that be so bad if executed right? Sorry, I had to get that dramatic load off my back. Laugh

Rivendell


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 11 2013, 6:57pm

Post #40 of 46 (1462 views)
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Smaug's armour is impenetrable [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole point is that he gets killed by such a small weakness. Any other death really goes against Tolkien's original concept IMO.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 11 2013, 7:39pm

Post #41 of 46 (1457 views)
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Someone in another thread a few days ago suggested [In reply to] Can't Post

that maybe it will be addressed early in the next film. As an exchange between Bilbo and Gandalf possibly? It would clear something up that bothers a lot of people (i'm fine with what i see as the "obvious" answer), and could be quite amusing as well.


Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien


Apr 11 2013, 10:03pm

Post #42 of 46 (1437 views)
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Yes, that would be bad [In reply to] Can't Post

If Smaug could be killed by a hail of arrows, someone would have done so years ago. The Dwarves or the Men of Dale could have done it. The Lake-towners could have killed him when he emerges to hunt. Plus, if there's no plotline about Smaug's weakness, Bilbo plays no role in his destruction. He's our hero, he has to be involved somehow.

I agree that the thrush will likely not talk. Jackson seems to want to avoid talking animals (which makes me sad, as someone who grew up with The Hobbit and didn't mind the lighter fairy tale touches or the idea that the Eagles are more than mere mortal birds. But that's another debate). Bard will probably either be shown to understand bird speech or will use thrushes as messengers, as others have suggested.


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Apr 11 2013, 10:25pm

Post #43 of 46 (1436 views)
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Just a Conjecture [In reply to] Can't Post

Eagles are inhabitants of Middle-Earth, yet they live an obscure, elevated existence. Their realm is not that of the
squabbles and schemes of worldly, intimate folk, however noble their aspirations may be. While they remain almost
undetected and aloof while other bastions against the shadow yet impose, in them exists an almost primal capability to respond
when there is great need with all other alternatives having been exhausted. By that, I do not purposely imply that the Eagles
are arbiters of gravitas, as if they ponder variables before intervention. Rather I see their
responses as more of a primal, ancient remembrance, elicited in times of great peril. It's not necessarily a reason that they show up; rather, it's more
of a remembrance, hence why they do not advance others further on their missions to mount doom or to the lonely mountain. Gandalf must have
notable rapport with them as he gets them to come frequently haha
-2 cents


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Apr 12 2013, 1:03am

Post #44 of 46 (1414 views)
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Eyes of Manwe [In reply to] Can't Post

At least Tolkien calls them this. And eventually he may have gotten this all sorted out. My belief is that they are Manwe's servants and he uses them to nudge events in the right direction. We are told in the TH that Gandalf had healed the eagle Lord of a wound and therefor Gwaihir returns the favor.


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Apr 12 2013, 1:49am

Post #45 of 46 (1415 views)
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That's Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I never knew that about the history of the Eagles. I don't know why the Eagles appear when they do other than for literary purposes. I now see the conundrum. If they reciprocated Gandalf's aid, why then and there and not in other moments of great peril? Couldn't they had done more for Gandalf and the cause of the Free Peoples? If they existed to nudge events in the right direction, why not nudge them a little further and drop the ring into the fire or help the dwarves at Erebor, sparing countless others - Theoden, Thorin, ect. - their dooms? Perhaps I am overthinking it.


Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell


Apr 16 2013, 8:59pm

Post #46 of 46 (1378 views)
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Corey Olsen made some interesting comments about the moth on a Riddles in the Dark podcast... [In reply to] Can't Post

... he spoke about the difference between the Gandalf of the Hobbit and the Gandalf of LOTR (books). The Gandalf of the LOTR would never get caught in a tree and killed by warns, he's too powerful. That's the same as the Gandalf in the films, he needs to have something up his sleeve, they couldn't have him just getting lucky and being saved by eagles.

"Durin's Heir you may be, but even with one eye you should see clearer. If this is victory, then our hands are too small to hold it. We will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Beyond the shadow of the gate it waits for you still: Durin’s Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin’s Folk walk again in Moria.”

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