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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Bilbo & Frodo scene
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sycorax82
Rohan

Apr 7 2013, 2:30am

Post #26 of 40 (288 views)
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Forget the de-aging, all they needed was the right wig!! [In reply to] Can't Post

The wig used for AUJ was so crap! Laugh

If the scene seems 'off' it's for a number of reasons...yeah the wig is one of them, and the fact that Sir Ian Holm was much older and had not been too well (he actually retired from onscreen appearances in 2006 and has only done voice work since, so we can assume he was playing Bilbo as a favour to Peter more than anything)

The other main reason is Peter's determination to show off by flicking between the Pinewood shoot with Sir Ian and, blatantly, Martin Freeman dressed as old Bilbo facing away from the camera. I reckon he should just have stuck with Sir Ian and we didn't need to see Bilbo walking around Bag End.

The 2 shots with Martin as old Bilbo on the Bag End exterior were a bit mad to include too! I wonder if there was a stage when we weren't going to see old Bilbo at all, just hear his voice? Or that Martin was gonna do all the old Bilbo stuff??


CathrineB
Rohan


Apr 7 2013, 7:32am

Post #27 of 40 (261 views)
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lol yeah the wig! (possible DOS spoiler) [In reply to] Can't Post

The wig doesn't even resemble the same hair he has in FOTR. At first I was like "Frodo still looks too skinny", but Bilbo looks just soooo different XD Having it set at the end of "ROTK" would possible have been a better idea.

And Balin? I didn't notice anything disturbing de-aging Balin. I think he looked alright. Oh wait, are we talking about how he's supposed to be like 7 years old? Laugh

Hugo and Kate looks more or less the same. If not better haha.


-spoiler-

I wonder how Leggy will be. Some say he doesn't look aged at all and it's too soon to say, but I'd say he does look a little rounder faced in the btc clips we've seen.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 7 2013, 9:00am

Post #28 of 40 (231 views)
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It's too floppy [In reply to] Can't Post

They must've known at the time of filming it wasn't perfect. And if they can de-age an actors face, surely they can un-flop a wig?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 7 2013, 1:11pm

Post #29 of 40 (208 views)
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Wasn't Frodo wearing eyeliner for some reason?? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 7 2013, 1:43pm

Post #30 of 40 (205 views)
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Not sure [In reply to] Can't Post

but I do know they had to give Elijah a facelift as well I believe, hahaha


Ref
Rivendell


Apr 7 2013, 2:22pm

Post #31 of 40 (201 views)
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RE: DanielLB [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you. Also I find it strange that they wanted to show the audience - look Martin and Sir Ian are playing the same character coz they've got the same hairstyle!! I mean it's unheard of people changing their hairstyle(!)

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FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Apr 7 2013, 6:38pm

Post #32 of 40 (175 views)
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I found... [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole thing to be rather self-indulgent, but i can see why they wanted to do it.
I also found Ian Holms voice to be the big problem, he SOUNDED older and almost like he was out of breath and each word was a struggle, and he definately sounded more husky. He doesn't sound like Bilbo in LOTR.

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Apr 8 2013, 12:16am

Post #33 of 40 (154 views)
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I liked it [In reply to] Can't Post

However, it occurred to me later that there was something about that scene. I figured out what it was: Frodo was actually happy. I don't know about anyone else, but that's what I found about the scene. I liked it, and I can see why Jackson added it, but there was something about it. Now I know what it is. Frodo is all happy and smiling. That's because (for the time being) he doesn't know Bilbo is leaving, he knows nothing of the Ring, and he doesn't yet know he will be going on a dark and dangerous journey.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Apr 8 2013, 12:24am

Post #34 of 40 (147 views)
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Was he? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where did you notice it? That's kinda odd, considering he's Frodo, not Ziggy Stardust! Laugh (David Bowie's character, not me.)


(This post was edited by Ziggy Stardust on Apr 8 2013, 12:25am)


Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien


Apr 8 2013, 6:00am

Post #35 of 40 (142 views)
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I think the scene feels awkward and unnecessary [In reply to] Can't Post

There isn't much point to it beyond "Hey, kids, look! It's Frodo!" It felt very much like fan-service and it kind of slows down the beginning of the film. Personally, I would have preferred the Erebor prologue to be followed by a brief shot of old Bilbo at his desk, then to cut right to the flashback. After all, that's the story we've come to see. I think the Frodo scene feels awkward because it's a bit forced and it delays the actual start of the adventure.


dreamflower
Lorien

Apr 8 2013, 1:28pm

Post #36 of 40 (117 views)
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I see what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

I think as others mention, it had a lot to do with the amount of exposition crammed into the scenes. I enjoyed seeing "older Bilbo" and Frodo together once more, but as happened in LotR, PJ occasionally has scenes that don't actually make sense within the context of the movie itself (Gandalf saying he'll meet Frodo and Sam in Bree as he rides to Isengard; Elrond in Dunharrow; Aragorn giving the hobbits swords on Weathertop). The way this scene was written makes it another.

Part of what seemed "off" about it was that Bilbo is only just beginning to write his story, and we learn that this is the day of the Party. If he's planning to write the story to fill Frodo in, he's left it kind of late. Is he going to write the entirety of the Red Book in one afternoon?

Also Frodo brings him the responses to the invitations and Bilbo looks surprised: "Is it today?" Why would he forget the day of the Party when he'd be totally involved in his duties as host? (And why are the RSVPs only arriving on the day of the Party?) And the idea that Frodo is only just finding out some things that he had probably known all along is what seems odd. Surely in his years at Bag End he'd seen some of Bilbo's mementos already.

I think that the scene would have worked much better if PJ had not been trying so hard to cram it into this particular gap on the day of the Party.

As a writer of fanfic gapfillers, I can tell you that some gaps are more easily filled than others, and that some gaps do not need filling. I can easily imagine much better ways of using the concept of Bilbo telling Frodo of his adventure that would have seemed less forced.

That said, there were parts I really enjoyed about it--especially Frodo looking at the sketch of younger Bilbo, which worked very well; and considering how much older EW was this time, I thought he captured his role very well, erasing the years between. The idea of the scene was nice, and EW and and IH did okay with what they had to work with.

But it was sloppily scripted. Ah well! PJ's strengths have never been in scripting. Visuals? Yes. Special effects? Yes. Drawing scenes that emotionally resonate with the audience? Yes.

Scripting? No.


(This post was edited by dreamflower on Apr 8 2013, 1:30pm)


Oscarilbo
Lorien


Apr 8 2013, 2:52pm

Post #37 of 40 (104 views)
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well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Much of the problem I think is our very conscient view of the scene. By that I mean us knowing we are seeing these actors more than 10 years older than in FOTR, in which their scenes have become almost sacred through the passing of the years, by the way, which just make it even harder.

To that, adding that they in fact look a little different, not just by age (which i think was handled very well, at least enough to suspend disbelief for "virgin" eyes, without a problem), but by cinematography and color timing, which I think is the right decision for making The Hobbit movies having its own lighting and chromatic palette.

But a little, but "important" decision is making seeing Bilbo a little different experience, and that is because, as you know, he has something different on him.

Here I put his original wig back on him, to give us and idea of how he may have looked like having the same hair style as FOTR.



Of course he seriously sad in that AUJ scene, after all he is remembering his "youth", but, at least for me, he looks a lot more like the Bilbo he is in LOTR.

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 8 2013, 3:05pm

Post #38 of 40 (98 views)
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Yeah, if they had gotten the wig right, [In reply to] Can't Post

that would have helped a lot. I was wondering about how much that terrible wig played in his diminished appearance. Turns out, quite a lot-- thanks for posting that.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 8 2013, 4:12pm

Post #39 of 40 (90 views)
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Good work :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Doesn't look too different to this screencap. Not any more flattering for Mr.Holm, but the wig does look less floppy.


hamlet
Rivendell


Apr 11 2013, 3:35pm

Post #40 of 40 (65 views)
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I beg to differ -- [In reply to] Can't Post

This is one of the scenes I most enjoy. There are lots of little moments that just give me joy for some reason: "It began as you might expect; in a hole in the ground. . ." (when I first heard this line, I got a huge, happy grin on my face), Frodo's reaction when he sees the "No Admittance" sign, Bilbo talking about Lobelia, seeing the young and carefree Frodo running to greet Gandalf (and feeling a little twinge of sorrow with the knowledge of how his life is soon to change). Etc

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