Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
All problems in AUJ are linked to the 3 movie decision.
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next page Last page  View All

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 3 2013, 12:11am

Post #201 of 221 (173 views)
Shortcut
"For it is also in my mind." [In reply to] Can't Post

You have spoken my sentiments so well, I am going to suggest you changing your icon to Galadriel.

In Reply To
between the changes in the LOTR films, and the changes in The Hobbit films. The majority of changes to LOTR were the result of not having enough time to film every little bit of what Tolkien wrote, so a LOT had to be omitted. We generally don't hear the word "padding" used when referring to the changes in LOTR. The Hobbit situation is completely different - there's quite a bit of stuff added, most of which is either heavily modified from what Tolkien wrote, or totally invented for the movie.

As for the creative license, I agree to an extent. I did not expect a complete word-for-word adaptation, and in some cases I think some minor changes worked quite well (Thorin arriving alone at Bag-End, Gandalf's shockwave blast in Goblin-Town). I'm completely cool with the writers fleshing out the dwarves and making them individuals. Plus, I was totally on-board for the whole Necromancer sub-plot, since I had always wished that to be covered in the book. I loved the movie myself, enough to have seen it at least 10 times already, but I just think some of the changed stuff would have worked better if he had stayed closer to what Tolkien wrote. I know there's no sense in expecting anything to be done about my gripes or anyone elses, but if we shouldn't vent our gripes here, then where?



In Reply To
I'm a long time lurker of these forums, but this is my first post. First, I'll start off by saying, I loved AUJ. I completely expected events in the movie to be widly different than the book, for the simple fact the PJ was directing it, and I say thank God he ended up doing it. Anyone who expected a true to the book adaptation either didn't see the LOTR trilogy, or was holding out for some false sense of hope. I think being upset over whether it was Azog or Bolg is like being mad that it was Arwen instead of Glorfindel who rescued Frodo. (Actually, I believed for years that it was Legalos who rescued Frodo, until I read the books. I was a child of the semi live action animated movie.) In either case, it doesn't matter. The main storyline is still intact and all the players are there. Had PJ decided that Saruman been the wizard to lead them, and some Hobbit from the appendecies was in Bilbo's spot, then I'd be upset.
This is an adaptation of a story, and really should be treated as such. This is a story of 13 Dwarves, one hobbit, and one wizard getting from point A to point B and back. All the events surrounding the main story are open for creative license.



"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Ardamr
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 2:01am

Post #202 of 221 (164 views)
Shortcut
Thanks for the laugh :D [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am going to suggest you changing your icon to Galadriel.


This just really made me chuckle. Laugh

"Now this babe was of greatest beauty; his skin of a shining white and his eyes of a blue surpassing that of the sky in southern lands - bluer than the sapphires of the raiment of Manw; and the envy of Meglin was deep at his birth, but the joy of Turgon and all the people very great indeed." -The Fall of Gondolin


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 3 2013, 4:44am

Post #203 of 221 (150 views)
Shortcut
*wink* [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

In Reply To

In Reply To
I am going to suggest you changing your icon to Galadriel.


This just really made me chuckle. Laugh


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elenorflower
Gondor


Apr 3 2013, 9:12am

Post #204 of 221 (145 views)
Shortcut
I dont mind adaptations [In reply to] Can't Post

and I dont mind changes. If they are as good or better than the original story. Unfortunately what we have is sub par not even at the level of fanfiction stuff from PJ. Azog is a huge cliche baddie, with huge cliche dialogue disguised in the form of Black Speech. What is remotely scary or original about him I fail to understand and he sticks out like a sore thumb he is so un-Tolkien. Radagast on the other hand is trying desperately to be Tolkien with all his pseudo whimsy, but something dont smell right and it isnt the bird doo doo.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 11:30am

Post #205 of 221 (141 views)
Shortcut
LOL [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You have spoken my sentiments so well, I am going to suggest you changing your icon to Galadriel.



Elenorflower
Gondor


Apr 3 2013, 11:52am

Post #206 of 221 (140 views)
Shortcut
WOAH!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hold it buster! theres only one Me.





Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 3:38pm

Post #207 of 221 (125 views)
Shortcut
It is. [In reply to] Can't Post

There are several changes and that's to be excpted. Expecting a page by page translation would be naive if anyone really did expect that. In the end some of the changes I loved and some I rolled with because it still felt like Middle-earth to me.



Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 3:42pm

Post #208 of 221 (122 views)
Shortcut
Never tried? [In reply to] Can't Post

That might be a slight exaggeration.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 5:02pm

Post #209 of 221 (111 views)
Shortcut
well they could always prove it by [In reply to] Can't Post

showing behind the scenes footage where the book way didn't work. Showing WHY they had to change things... But I think they set out with the notion of outright changing it right from the start.


imin
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 5:11pm

Post #210 of 221 (116 views)
Shortcut
It does and it doesn't [In reply to] Can't Post

They have basically all the parts of The Hobbit from the book (these go into the it does pile) but then they added lots of things not in the book or appendices (this section goes in the does not pile).

There is then a balance between the it does and doesn't pile. For me lots of scenes that people say were in the book - e.g. Stone giants - were not - i mean did we get a description of them on a moving mountain that played like a Rocky movie or Rock-em-Sock-em?

I don't think many expected a literal translation of the book or want that, though I feel the inclusion of so much fan fiction is at a detriment to the story as a whole, leaving it feel not quite like the Tolkien story I know and love.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 5:23pm

Post #211 of 221 (117 views)
Shortcut
I loved the look of the Stone giants [In reply to] Can't Post

and to me what they did was reminiscent of the ents from TTT. Like I said where that scene went all wrong for me was when the dwarfs began riding them. Then the scene just went downhill. But I'm glad others could enjoy it , but to me it just seemed unrealistic and OTT. What I was hoping for the Hobbit was something a bit more realistic based, which was what I liked about LOTR it was based more historically than just a typical fantasy film. The Hobbit has just become a fantasy film lacking that realistic/historical feeling that Peter Jackson pushed so hard for in LOTR.


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 5:31pm

Post #212 of 221 (113 views)
Shortcut
I don't think we need to see it [In reply to] Can't Post

nor have anything proven to us. I don't subscribe to that mindset.



Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 5:37pm

Post #213 of 221 (112 views)
Shortcut
You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

There are parts that are and aren't. There are parts that are fan fiction. IMO a lot of it works and some of it doesn't. As long as the basic parts are there I'm ok with the changes and as a whole the basic parts are there. I can't speak for others but when I look at the totals The Hobbit did feel like the story I love. Its not an exact match but its close enough to hold up in court if this was a DNA test.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 5:57pm

Post #214 of 221 (107 views)
Shortcut
I'm cool with that, that works for you [In reply to] Can't Post

but for me I have seen too much to think that there was ever going to be anything like the book at this point. So if it ever was I would love for them to at least show those fans who were let down by the drastic changes that they at least thought about the book before making so many changes.


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 6:25pm

Post #215 of 221 (103 views)
Shortcut
Fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I do feel bad for anyone who felt let down or has felt let down by The Lord of the Rings. These films have captured so much of what I love about Middle-earth that for me its allowed me to invest so much emotional energy in the experience of seeing them on screen. For that not to have happened for anyone would be a bummer.



imin
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 6:35pm

Post #216 of 221 (101 views)
Shortcut
It is a bummer let me tell you! [In reply to] Can't Post

Though i am really pleased you liked it and felt it was as good as LOTR and hope you will love DOS and TABA just as much - which i am sure you will Smile

I think in a way that is why it has took some people so long to kinda get over AUJ as the expectations weren't met and sometimes that is the worst part of it all.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Apr 3 2013, 6:49pm

Post #217 of 221 (103 views)
Shortcut
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

- sorry, I know it's not thought to be good form to simply say, 'I agree' - but I'm not spamming; I really do agree with this post.
.


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 6:56pm

Post #218 of 221 (97 views)
Shortcut
I'm sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! I really appreciate that. I hope so. I have super high expectations and always fearful a bit that they won't be met.

I bet. If the film hadn't met what I was looking for I'd have been really bummed out. So I do feel terrible that people felt let down.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 7:17pm

Post #219 of 221 (94 views)
Shortcut
I wasn't let down by LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

but the Hobbit I just feel could have been better and fit with LOTR much better. I loved that during production of LOTR Peter Jackson was prodding the staff about treating middle earth like it really happened. Like it was some sort of historical film and they were really going to the places that Tolkien wrote about seeing the things that Tolkien wrote about. I get there were changes in LOTR but it was the realism I fell in love with with those films. The thought of being transported to a place that felt real. Peter Jackson pulled it off amazingly for those 3 films, even though some stuff I wasn't overly fond of because it deviated from the books. I could accept it because of that realism.

With the Hobbit for me anyways it just feels like a cartoonish version of middle earth. While still having a similar feel for some of it. There were just too many elements that just seem SO far fetched and OTT when compared to LOTR. The dwarfs on the spit for example, its just not something that could really happen. A few minutes over the flames and the dwarfs would have been toast, literally. All the constant falling and never getting hurt. just unrealistic. At least in FOTR we think for a second Frodo gets injured... The OTT sequences like the dwarfs riding the stone giants, the excessive overuse of CGI roller coaster antics in Goblin town and nobody coming out with a scratch. The constant swooping camera shots to show off the new cameras and 3D effects, stuff like that. That I think is what I miss in the Hobbit compared to LOTR, its the lack of realism, the fact they are treating this like a fantasy film, instead of historical reenactment film. I probably could accept more changes had they kept that realistic feel like they had with LOTR. But they clearly chose to make the Hobbit a high adventure fantasy film instead of something like LOTR which they did want based on realism and have a historical feel to it.

I loved certain aspects of the Hobbit like Baggend and the more realistic scenes, but for me there was too much trying to be funny and cartoonish stuff to make it seem realistic like LOTR was. The parts where they stuck to the book for the most part, I feel they nailed it, but the deviations seem even more OTT and cartoonish in comparison to LOTR. Plus it just seemed like every time you turned around in the Hobbit they were wanting to make some reference to the LOTR trilogy with the ring or with characters, or using similar or rehashed dialogue. It was just a bit much. To be constantly reminded that these 3 films are being forced to be connected to the LOTR trilogy by events that either never happened (Bolg working for Sauron, Nazgul in tombs), things that are changed (Azog hunting Thorin and company) or are taken out of context (the whole portrayal of the ring so far)


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Apr 3 2013, 7:22pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 7:47pm

Post #220 of 221 (85 views)
Shortcut
I'm glad [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't mean that you were per say that was just more in general. The problem I think is The Hobbit is supposed to feel a bit more "fantasty" than The Lord of the Rings. The books are that way and I think the movies are that way all while very much feeling a part of the same universe. I agree with you the level of realism yet staying fantasty in The Lord of the Rings was amazing. Its just part of what makes those movies so special.

I don't know about that. I feel The Hobbit feels plenty real. Not quite like The Lord of the Rings but again the book doesn't have that same feel so I never expected it to be quite the same way. It for me is just enough of both to keep me happy with things. I do agree there are a couple moments that are a bit OTT with the falling but as a whole I thought the rest of the film fit just fine.

I didn't have a probelm with the two stories being tied together because they are tied together. I do wish he hadn't changed some of the Dwarven history though as a few of us have discussed but the rest of the time I never felt it was too much.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 3 2013, 9:00pm

Post #221 of 221 (146 views)
Shortcut
This... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I loved certain aspects of the Hobbit like Baggend and the more realistic scenes, but for me there was too much trying to be funny and cartoonish stuff to make it seem realistic like LOTR was. The parts where they stuck to the book for the most part, I feel they nailed it, but the deviations seem even more OTT and cartoonish in comparison to LOTR. Plus it just seemed like every time you turned around in the Hobbit they were wanting to make some reference to the LOTR trilogy with the ring or with characters, or using similar or rehashed dialogue. It was just a bit much. To be constantly reminded that these 3 films are being forced to be connected to the LOTR trilogy by events that either never happened (Bolg working for Sauron, Nazgul in tombs), things that are changed (Azog hunting Thorin and company) or are taken out of context (the whole portrayal of the ring so far)


I particularly agree with the description of TH as cartoonish - that is exactly the feel we got when the shots of real actors became very obvious CGI renderings of the characters after the start of many of the action sequences - the Trolls fight, Stone Giants and Goblin Town escape are prime culprits. We had hardly any of that in LotR (apart from Legolas...it was real stunt actors doing the action sequences.. I suppose those guys are now employed doing the mo-cap instead!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






(This post was edited by Eleniel on Apr 3 2013, 9:01pm)

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.