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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So apparently Rivendell is underground?
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Kirly
Lorien


Mar 23 2013, 5:30pm

Post #26 of 38 (323 views)
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Yes, very much like The Grand Canyon [In reply to] Can't Post

In my home state of Arizona. You can't catch many glimpses of it until you are right ontop of it.

And, the path the walked along to get there reminded me immediately of Antelope Canyon also in AZ.just google that name for images to see what I mean - very narrow slot canyons.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


Kirly
Lorien


Mar 23 2013, 5:35pm

Post #27 of 38 (335 views)
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Beautiful picture. Where is it? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 23 2013, 6:26pm

Post #28 of 38 (319 views)
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Or where the dude's arm got stuck [In reply to] Can't Post

in 127 Hours-- in Canyonlands National Park, Utah.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 23 2013, 8:24pm

Post #29 of 38 (278 views)
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Plitvice Lakes National Park (Croatia)// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Mar 23 2013, 10:48pm

Post #30 of 38 (270 views)
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Chronciles Art Book [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure the Chronicles art book by Weta mentions the company arriving at a different part of Rivendell compared to Lord of the Rings, so they might have bypassed the ford completely in movie-verse.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Gandy
Bree

Mar 23 2013, 11:02pm

Post #31 of 38 (272 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry for the oversized pics.

I understand if you're looking parallel to a large canyon, from a distance, you can't see it. But, it's easy to see the Grand Canyon. I took the term "hidden" as meaning the Rivendell can't be found unless the Elves let you find it. Almost magical. But if Sauron tells his orcs or winged beasts especially, "Just head a few miles that way and you can't miss the giant canyon of Rivendell. It's a giant hole in the ground" then those orcs would certainly find it.

I'm certainly not able to pull up a Middle Earth map mentally or quote passages. Just a wondering about the movie's adaptation.

I've resized the Carock pictures. The way the 3 mountain ranges move in parallax, there's no way that center range would disappear to the right enough to make reveal the huge flat lands leading towards Lonely Mountain. And on the 2nd shot, the Carack is much closer to the mountains sandwiching left and right. The center range just disappeared. Only if the Carack is moved way forward and turned facing right, where the river turns right, could the final shot be possible.

It's very unimportant I know. But here it is anyway






Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Mar 23 2013, 11:29pm

Post #32 of 38 (277 views)
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It doesn't vanish. Look at the company's shadows - they're facing a different direction [In reply to] Can't Post

In the first picture, you can see the sun setting behind that center range, which means it must be due west. In the second picture, the company's shadows make it look like the sun is to their left, and behind them, which means they're facing north-north-east, or north-east. In the second picture, you can also see that the light from the setting sun is coming from somewhere off to the left, which is also consistent with them facing north and east. Going from the map in the book, if I were standing on the Carrock looking at the Lonely Mountain, I'd be looking east-north-east, so I figure that shot is pretty darned close.

In any case, the center mountain range doesn't vanish, it's off to their left and behind them in the second picture.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 23 2013, 11:32pm)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Mar 24 2013, 2:32am

Post #33 of 38 (233 views)
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Barad-dur and Mount Doom [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
that in Jackson's Middle-earth, you can see impossibly far-- the Carrock is over 250 miles from the Lonely Mountain. Even worse, at the end of The Two Towers, Gandalf and crew view Mordor from Helm's Deep, which is 500 miles away. Not nitpicking here-- i love both of those shots (especially that shot of the Lonely Mountain-- can't wait to get there!), and understand he's setting up where the action is going next, contexualizing the different locations to set up the next film. I just find it amusing, and i love Tolkien's maps.


There were inconsistencies in the distance between Mount Doom and Barad-dur. I think it TTT when Saruman has his first scene we get of shot of BD with MD WAY in the background. Then the final shot of the film shows it MUCH closer to BD like in ROTK.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 3:34am

Post #34 of 38 (218 views)
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west west away, the round sun is falling... [In reply to] Can't Post

or maybe southwest away, if you are somewhat north of the equator, which they would be...

here in PA, about now, the sun sets somewhat southwestish, more southish in winter, more westish in summer...

I think England is farther north, therefore sun would set more southish??????

Assuming this part of Middle Earth is well north of the equator...

Go outside and play...


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 3:46am

Post #35 of 38 (222 views)
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geology 101 [In reply to] Can't Post

Back in 1984 some friends and I drove Out West. I remember going along with a fairly normal dry landscape on either side, kind of flattish, then suddenly looking over and seeing a slash in it: a ravine, and wondering where it led.

Probably to a larger canyon. These features are often dry, flash flooding (dangerously) during heavy rains.

I did a bit of poling around the web and found...

Plateaus:
The Colorado Plateau in northern Arizona and southern Utah is bisected by the valley of the Colorado River and the Grand Canyon. How this came to be is that over 10 million years ago, a river was already there, though not necessarily on exactly the same course. Then, subterranean geological forces caused the land in that part of North America to gradually rise by about a centimeter per year for millions of years. An unusual balance occurred: the river that would become the Colorado River was able to erode into the crust of the Earth at a nearly equal rate to the uplift of the plateau. Now, millions of years later, the North Rim of the Grand Canyon is at an elevation of about 2450 meters (9800 ft) above sea level, and the South Rim of the Grand Canyon is about 2150 meters (8200 ft) above sea level. At its deepest, the Colorado River is about 1830 meters (6000 ft) below the level of the North Rim.

Ravines and canyons:
Canyons are steep, V-shaped valleys incised in rock, commonly in plateaus. Although the rock that forms a plateau is usually a sedimentary sequence of lime stone, sandstone, shale, or conglomerate, layers formed by basaltic lava flows are also common, particularly as protective cap rocks. Canyons cut in flat-lying rocks have steep side walls composed of alternating cliffs and slopes with a step like profile . The cliffs are formed by the harder, more resistant rock strata, and the slopes by softer, less resistant layers. Canyons in crystalline rock tend to have less regular cross-sectional profiles. Most canyons have narrow to nonexistent floodplains between their channel and the side walls. Canyons with near vertical headwalls are called box canyons, from which there are no upstream exits. Canyon floors can be fairly level for long stretches, particularly near their mouths. They have a depositional cover of sand, gravel, and boulders. Boulders and large talus fragments predominate in their upper reaches but are sparse and scattered in their lower sections. Cap rocks composed of lava flows commonly contain columnar basalt, which forms layers of closely packed, vertically oriented, polygonal shaped columns. Where such layers are present, fallen rock debris on the canyon floor consists of a jumble of loglike rock columns of different lengths. If the channel is incised into a sequence of layered rocks, the channel typically takes on a flat-bottomed, boxy shape, more like an arroyo.

A canyon may contain a perennial river (e.g., the Grand Canyon of Arizona contains the Colorado River), ephemeral water, or intermittent water. In the arid to very arid deserts, most canyons are dry. All, however, are subject to flash flooding after rain falls in the watershed, which can be the surrounding highlands or a distant mountainous area. The steep walls, absence of broad floodplains, and presence of rock debris makes much of a canyon floor unsuitable for travel or camping. In the upper reaches, vehicular travel is not possible and foot travel can be difficult. These same characteristics make the canyon hazardous because of the potential for flash floods. Isolated thunderstorms, either local or in the upper reaches of the watershed, can quickly cause flash floods in side canyons and waterfalls over canyon walls; both can produce torrential flows that may rapidly fill the canyon from wall to wall to depths of many meters. Travel into or out of the main canyon is best done via the smaller side canyons, climbing in and out by means of the canyon walls requires ropes, pitons, etc. Box canyons end upstream in vertical cliffs that are difficult to climb and impossible for vehicles to negotiate.

good thing it wasn't raining, Thorin...

Go outside and play...


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Mar 24 2013, 9:59am

Post #36 of 38 (191 views)
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Mae govannen, Gandy! [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome to TORn. Smile

Okay, so PJ played with geology a bit in the pre-Rivendell orc/warg chase scene, but still...I think the valley as shown in the movie is pretty close to how it's described in the book. If a canyon is deep and narrow enough, you can't see what's at the bottom until you're standing right at the brink, and with enough curvy bits and complicated rock formations, it can be hard to get a good view from up top of any particular bit that you're after. The Grand Canyon comes to mind, though that's rather an extreme example.

I like the Elven planetarium idea. Those Elves would do such a thing if they could!


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 24 2013, 10:56am

Post #37 of 38 (192 views)
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Even more... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
that in Jackson's Middle-earth, you can see impossibly far-- the Carrock is over 250 miles from the Lonely Mountain. Even worse, at the end of The Two Towers, Gandalf and crew view Mordor from Helm's Deep, which is 500 miles away. Not nitpicking here-- i love both of those shots (especially that shot of the Lonely Mountain-- can't wait to get there!), and understand he's setting up where the action is going next, contexualizing the different locations to set up the next film. I just find it amusing, and i love Tolkien's maps.


There were inconsistencies in the distance between Mount Doom and Barad-dur. I think it TTT when Saruman has his first scene we get of shot of BD with MD WAY in the background. Then the final shot of the film shows it MUCH closer to BD like in ROTK.




There are quite some moments like this in the LotR trilogy.

Look at the Ride of the Rohirrim. When you see the shots of the riders that open up the view to the North-East. You can see snowy mountains there - although there should be the Anduin valley and the Ephel Duath.

And Ithilien is sometimes shown as this vast strip of land between the Anduin and the mountains while in some shots the mountains begin to rise immediately on the shores of the Anduin.

Another thing would be the distance between the mountains of Mordor and the Emyn Muil. Yes, distances can look larger or smaller depending on the weather... but not in the same way as they do in FotR and TTT.

I actually think the canyon leading to Rivendell can be explained better than some of those.


Rostron2
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 5:54pm

Post #38 of 38 (200 views)
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This is what I thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

It must have taken a while to follow that entrance to the hidden valley.

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